ok what's the deal with tuwunel vs continuwuity?

@fossdd @ariadne I'm glad to see Matrix continues the IRC legacy of incomprehensible fork trees

@val @fossdd I mean Jason originally turned Charybdis into a matrix server for whatever reason

@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems one is official and the other is made by a bunch of people who harassed the conduwuit developer out of matrix development

@cobra @ariadne which is which?

@chaos@gts.schizofucked.monster @ariadne@social.treehouse.systems tuwunel is the official one and continuwuity is the other one

@chaos @cobra this entire situation is odd because Jason has a history of harassment dating back to 2017

@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems @chaos@gts.schizofucked.monster not sure what that has to do with conduwuit devs saying june deserves to die and flooding matrix rooms with spam accounts and stuff but ok

@chaos @cobra are you certain it isn't just Jason joe-jobbing the continuwuity devs? the beauty of pseudonymous net abuse is that you can't know for certain who is actually doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job

@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems @chaos@gts.schizofucked.monster i can provide screenshots of a chat where nyx et al discusses doing this

@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems and jason hasnt done any of that black hat shit in like 4 years but god forbid people change instead of facing infinite suffering for mistakes

@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems im Quite certain. and your clear lack of willingness to even consider that maybe continuwuity is bad and that it must be All Jason Actually says a lot
https://ak.vern.cc/notice/B1YWQb94P4htf966gy
https://ak.vern.cc/notice/B1YWplIvllWGPTi0e0
https://ak.vern.cc/notice/B1YWtyNZ6FJA7QstbU
https://ak.vern.cc/notice/B1YXAc31Ne4TmZD3rM

@ariadne @val @fossdd Charybdis the ircd or is this something unrelated?

@noisytoot @fossdd @ariadne yes, the ircd

@cobra my position is based on direct experience working with Jason on what became his first attempt at making a matrix server, construct.

It was originally built from parts of Charybdis, and his behavior created problems for the Charybdis project which in part led to the troubles with freenode.

I am willing to believe everyone involved sucks, but given that I have direct knowledge of his past behavior, I am not willing to believe he is purely innocent here.

@cobra for example, my first interaction with Jason was when he submitted a bunch of patches to Charybdis to "show the freenode staff that they are incompetent" or whatever it was.

In my naivete, I tried to redirect his maladaptive behavior into working on ircd. This led to a disagreement between myself (as the BDFL of the Charybdis IRC project) and Christel Dahlskljaer, wherein Christel threatened to KLINECHAN the entirety of #charybdis if we accepted code from Jason.

This is why I discussed the situation with rasengan, which set into motion the entire shitshow that happened next where he fired Christel and then proceeded to take over the network and run it into the ground.

But the reason Christel had the position she had was because Jason was harassing freenode staff due to their decision to not collaborate with him.

Her position was bad (threatening a FOSS project she depended on to deliver freenode services), but his conduct was also bad.

My goal was to redirect his conduct into something more productive.

Since then, I have heard about other instances which line up with the same pattern of behavior I was trying to redirect in the first place.

@cobra when he was working on Construct, he found a vulnerability in the way Synapse resolved DAG events that he exploited to brick #matrix-hq's history.

When he did that he crossed a line that personally made me feel uncomfortable working with him any further.

Maybe his behavior has changed since then, but the fact that there are two forks instead of one fork tells me that not much has changed.

Which is sad, because if what you are saying is right, it means I won't be spending my time on either fork.

This is unfortunate because I now need to have a reliable Matrix homeserver to continue interacting with certain projects that plan to deprecate their IRC chat.

@val@oc.todon.fr @fossdd@chaos.social @ariadne@social.treehouse.systems I didn't know Construct was Charybdis-based and was confused because Construct is ISC-licensed while Charybdis is GPL'd. I then looked at git blame LICENSE and apparently Jason just replaced the GPL with the ISC license!? That seems very much illegal unless he replaced every single line of Charybdis code (or somehow got permission from all contributors)

@ariadne @cobra upstream Conduit is still maintained

@noisytoot @cobra yes, but something pisses me off about that one too

@val@oc.todon.fr @ariadne@social.treehouse.systems @fossdd@chaos.social Correction: not ISC, but a license that is almost identical except it has "is present in" instead of "appear in".

Also apparently there's still an IRC parser in Construct, is that actually used anywhere?