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  3. New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

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  • IrisI Iris

    New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

    https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

    Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦I This user is from outside of this forum
    Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦I This user is from outside of this forum
    Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦
    wrote last edited by
    #5

    @iris_meredith fuck, this hits hard.

    I would also include all the brilliant minds working hard on giving us depression from computers.

    I saw a random comment on Reddit: ... many smart people tie their inherent value to their professional contribution. I can relate. AuDHD, I live and sleep in a constant mild to high strees, it takes high effort to not escape discomfort from the real world and inside my head. SwE allows it plus the validation that I exist. But this validation is my output.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • IrisI Iris

      New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

      https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

      maxT This user is from outside of this forum
      maxT This user is from outside of this forum
      max
      wrote last edited by
      #6

      @iris_meredith this is really interesting. my take as an autistic person (obviously there are a lot of us in tech) is when you lack proprioception, your bodily needs often don't become apparent until they're physically painful, and I can imagine the mindset that would keep meal replacement shakes on hand so they can go back to hyperfocussing on programming or videogames or whatever. and the more emotionally disregulated you are, the worse it gets, and I think a lot of tech bros are wallowing in a pit of self-hatred and online toxicity so it's a vicious cycle

      maxT 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • IrisI Iris

        New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

        https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

        Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦I This user is from outside of this forum
        Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦I This user is from outside of this forum
        Yurii / Юра 🇺🇦
        wrote last edited by
        #7

        @iris_meredith If I'd focus on one aspect only.

        I started to work in tech in 2000, IT crowd was in basements, away from real people, we were geeking out with a bunch of nerds, life was fun.

        Fast-forward, and billionaires like Thiel and Brin telling employers that 60 hours a week is the "sweet spot" and Thiel wannabes tell me to "inspire" team to work 60h/week also leading by example.

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        • IrisI Iris

          New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

          https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
          Irenes (many)
          wrote last edited by
          #8

          @iris_meredith yeah, well put. it's always a delicate line trying to analyze the motivations of large groups of people like this, and you walked it carefully.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • maxT max

            @iris_meredith this is really interesting. my take as an autistic person (obviously there are a lot of us in tech) is when you lack proprioception, your bodily needs often don't become apparent until they're physically painful, and I can imagine the mindset that would keep meal replacement shakes on hand so they can go back to hyperfocussing on programming or videogames or whatever. and the more emotionally disregulated you are, the worse it gets, and I think a lot of tech bros are wallowing in a pit of self-hatred and online toxicity so it's a vicious cycle

            maxT This user is from outside of this forum
            maxT This user is from outside of this forum
            max
            wrote last edited by
            #9

            @iris_meredith I think I meant interoception, not proprioception

            chris martensC 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • IrisI Iris

              New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

              https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

              RaphaelO This user is from outside of this forum
              RaphaelO This user is from outside of this forum
              Raphael
              wrote last edited by
              #10

              @iris_meredith Can confirm considerable cognitive dissonance between what I think creates value in the world and what "tech" is asked/made to build most of the time.

              Can also confirm strong conflicts of this line of work with needs of body and soul. Some of that applies to any desk job, I think. On top of that, there's definitely many people who invest most of their free time to "stay on top" of developments (which of course normalizes that behaviour and creates expectations of techies to always know their way around the new stuff).

              And _of course_ we make up narratives in an effort to make all of that make sense. How could we go on otherwise?

              Are these narratives more malleable in tech than elsewhere? Interesting thought. 🤔 "Strong opinions loosely held" _is_ a meme, and adjusting opinions in the face of evidence _is_ a strength (imho).

              Problem is: There's so little science behind software "engineering" it's almost embarrassing. I can see how in a field of low-evidence best practice, any new idea can shift opinions with little evidence in turn. Not sure how that's necessarily related to the cognitive dissonance / dysphoria line of thought, though. 🤔

              RaphaelO 1 Reply Last reply
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              • RaphaelO Raphael

                @iris_meredith Can confirm considerable cognitive dissonance between what I think creates value in the world and what "tech" is asked/made to build most of the time.

                Can also confirm strong conflicts of this line of work with needs of body and soul. Some of that applies to any desk job, I think. On top of that, there's definitely many people who invest most of their free time to "stay on top" of developments (which of course normalizes that behaviour and creates expectations of techies to always know their way around the new stuff).

                And _of course_ we make up narratives in an effort to make all of that make sense. How could we go on otherwise?

                Are these narratives more malleable in tech than elsewhere? Interesting thought. 🤔 "Strong opinions loosely held" _is_ a meme, and adjusting opinions in the face of evidence _is_ a strength (imho).

                Problem is: There's so little science behind software "engineering" it's almost embarrassing. I can see how in a field of low-evidence best practice, any new idea can shift opinions with little evidence in turn. Not sure how that's necessarily related to the cognitive dissonance / dysphoria line of thought, though. 🤔

                RaphaelO This user is from outside of this forum
                RaphaelO This user is from outside of this forum
                Raphael
                wrote last edited by
                #11

                @iris_meredith I would also add that while definitely many loud people jump on hype trains in tech -- maybe because of some internal malleability as you propose, maybe out of cynical financial tactics -- it's not been my impression that _most_ people follow along, not really. Most people seem to just keep doing their jobs; keeping your head down and letting the hype pass is in many ways safer (and easier) compared to voicing loud disagreement with the Cool Kids.

                Come to think of it, _that's_ a lesson nerds learn in school, isn't it? 😕 Go along, shut up, or be isolated.

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                • IrisI Iris

                  New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                  https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                  refraction :verified_transgender:E This user is from outside of this forum
                  refraction :verified_transgender:E This user is from outside of this forum
                  refraction :verified_transgender:
                  wrote last edited by
                  #12

                  @iris_meredith oh... oh so that's why things went the way they did. we didn't even connect some of our experiences to gender dysphoria despite having known that we're trans for over 8 years now. okay.

                  refraction :verified_transgender:E 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • refraction :verified_transgender:E refraction :verified_transgender:

                    @iris_meredith oh... oh so that's why things went the way they did. we didn't even connect some of our experiences to gender dysphoria despite having known that we're trans for over 8 years now. okay.

                    refraction :verified_transgender:E This user is from outside of this forum
                    refraction :verified_transgender:E This user is from outside of this forum
                    refraction :verified_transgender:
                    wrote last edited by
                    #13

                    @iris_meredith we're still kinda working on the whole having desires and such again. honestly I think a fair amount was also crushed out of us by the realities of capitalism. things we legitimately wanted seemed completely unattainable.

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                    • IrisI Iris

                      New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                      https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                      Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                      Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:O This user is from outside of this forum
                      Esther Payne :bisexual_flag:
                      wrote last edited by
                      #14

                      @iris_meredith A really thoughtful post. I think it makes sense.

                      I am definately going to need to read it a few more times.

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                      0
                      • IrisI Iris

                        New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                        https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                        Mr. GreebM This user is from outside of this forum
                        Mr. GreebM This user is from outside of this forum
                        Mr. Greeb
                        wrote last edited by
                        #15

                        @iris_meredith Imo the common denominator here, as you mentioned several times in the piece, is repressed feelings and societal pressure. Geeky/nerdy types — and I count myself among them — were often not allowed to express themselves as kids, and told to enjoy things they simply didn't. I'm obviously not saying it's the same, but... sound familiar? Being taught that your feelings aren't valid and that others dictate what you like is quite an awful blueprint for a healthy emotional life

                        1/2

                        Mr. GreebM 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Mr. GreebM Mr. Greeb

                          @iris_meredith Imo the common denominator here, as you mentioned several times in the piece, is repressed feelings and societal pressure. Geeky/nerdy types — and I count myself among them — were often not allowed to express themselves as kids, and told to enjoy things they simply didn't. I'm obviously not saying it's the same, but... sound familiar? Being taught that your feelings aren't valid and that others dictate what you like is quite an awful blueprint for a healthy emotional life

                          1/2

                          Mr. GreebM This user is from outside of this forum
                          Mr. GreebM This user is from outside of this forum
                          Mr. Greeb
                          wrote last edited by
                          #16

                          @iris_meredith

                          The result is sad, but now, they're adults who need to take responsibility for their actions. A position of power and change, which is especially true of people working in AI, also comes with responsibility and accountability.

                          That's my take, anyway

                          2/2

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                          • IrisI Iris

                            New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                            https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                            Daniel DemmelD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Daniel DemmelD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Daniel Demmel
                            wrote last edited by
                            #17

                            @iris_meredith fascinating observations (thanks a lot for sharing your experience of gender dysphoria as a trans person!) and well written, thank you so much for writing!

                            I do relate to some of it, having alexithymia definitely doesn't help with embodiment.

                            But I also kept wondering if a lot of this is the oppression of the increasingly fascist hypercapitalism in big tech? I've been working in much more feminine startups in London and people and culture in these companies are much more healthy and humane.

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                            • IrisI Iris

                              New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                              https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                              TattieT This user is from outside of this forum
                              TattieT This user is from outside of this forum
                              Tattie
                              wrote last edited by
                              #18

                              @iris_meredith humanity dysphoria

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                              • IrisI Iris

                                New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                                https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                                Talisyn TailfeatherT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Talisyn TailfeatherT This user is from outside of this forum
                                Talisyn Tailfeather
                                wrote last edited by
                                #19

                                @iris_meredith This is brilliant, and very much gives voice to many issues I've been grappling with lately -- and connects them to larger trends in tech.

                                For me, the issue was not gender dysphoria (I'm fine with my original plumbing), but I still struggled with all the symptoms of dysphoria you mention -- feeling disconnected, not knowing what I wanted, alienation from my body, alienation from my work. Not feeling like *me*.

                                Turns out there was a critical part of me that I sent away long ago, because there simply wasn't a safe place for it in this world. For various complicated reasons, that part of me strongly identifies as a horse. (Yes, species dysphoria is a thing.) Which makes a lot of sense in your thesis -- horses are deeply embodied and sensous creatures, so it makes sense that part of my soul latched on to it.

                                The past few months have been all about connecting and celebrating that part of me. Alas, transitioning is off the table, but there are many other outlets that let it shine.

                                Talisyn TailfeatherT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Talisyn TailfeatherT Talisyn Tailfeather

                                  @iris_meredith This is brilliant, and very much gives voice to many issues I've been grappling with lately -- and connects them to larger trends in tech.

                                  For me, the issue was not gender dysphoria (I'm fine with my original plumbing), but I still struggled with all the symptoms of dysphoria you mention -- feeling disconnected, not knowing what I wanted, alienation from my body, alienation from my work. Not feeling like *me*.

                                  Turns out there was a critical part of me that I sent away long ago, because there simply wasn't a safe place for it in this world. For various complicated reasons, that part of me strongly identifies as a horse. (Yes, species dysphoria is a thing.) Which makes a lot of sense in your thesis -- horses are deeply embodied and sensous creatures, so it makes sense that part of my soul latched on to it.

                                  The past few months have been all about connecting and celebrating that part of me. Alas, transitioning is off the table, but there are many other outlets that let it shine.

                                  Talisyn TailfeatherT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Talisyn TailfeatherT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Talisyn Tailfeather
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #20

                                  @iris_meredith There are two fantasy tropes that I keep coming back to: the Horcrux (from Harry Potter) and Recission (from The Golden Compass).

                                  Both involve a splitting of the soul. In the horcrux, the soul is split to hide part of it away, for survival. In recission, half the soul is destroyed. Both create monsters.

                                  Long ago, I chose the path of the horcrux. I sent half my soul away to go live with the horses, because the other option was recission and soul death. I still remember doing it, too. Soul magic is weird. And I spent the next decade disconnected from myself.

                                  But I'm thankful, too. Because that part of me managed to survive, even if hidden. And now that I've rediscovered it, I've found something else -- that part of me was my heart. Something I was sorely missing. And something that our industry seems to have forgotten.

                                  I love living from my heart. I love feeling it in my chest. I love trusting that it knows what it wants. It's wonderful. ♥️

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                                  • maxT max

                                    @iris_meredith I think I meant interoception, not proprioception

                                    chris martensC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    chris martensC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    chris martens
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #21

                                    @tinybird @iris_meredith i also sometimes get those two things confused and i think that’s because they’re related (awareness of where you are in space requires awareness of what signals your senses are giving you, which manifest as internal bodily sensations)

                                    knackK 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • IrisI Iris

                                      New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                                      https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                                      ... and and and and ...A This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ... and and and and ...A This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ... and and and and ...
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #22

                                      @iris_meredith This article really captures the feeling that society is just structured to generate a general dysphoria. Just constantly putting everyone in a state of massive discomfort and listlessness. You simply do not get to be who you want to be. Especially in America.

                                      • You are prescribe to drive a car and the values it brings.
                                      • You must find life-long employment in a field you will have minimal chance to leave once selected.
                                      • The career you pick will bring prescribed notions of how you will act
                                      • etc. etc. things you've articulated very well.

                                      Careers are kinda a gender. I felt more or less prescribed to pursue a high-paying respectable job. My parents were super against career tech at my school cause they saw it as the place all the inept went to go straight to a job then fail in life. I choose the IT route over the Digital Design route cause I felt it was The Choice They'd Expect. And then I learned nobody in this field really gives a shit about when I was quiet passionate ._.

                                      My desire has always been to pursue art, but the income simply doesn't exist so I'm stuck at a desk gig that pays vastly better for a fraction of the work and for work I just do not care about and simply perform the motions of.

                                      Also, the segment about "tech works often having literally no interest outside of tech" is so painfully true. It can almost be unnerving when engaged upon en masse.

                                      ... and and and and ...A 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • ... and and and and ...A ... and and and and ...

                                        @iris_meredith This article really captures the feeling that society is just structured to generate a general dysphoria. Just constantly putting everyone in a state of massive discomfort and listlessness. You simply do not get to be who you want to be. Especially in America.

                                        • You are prescribe to drive a car and the values it brings.
                                        • You must find life-long employment in a field you will have minimal chance to leave once selected.
                                        • The career you pick will bring prescribed notions of how you will act
                                        • etc. etc. things you've articulated very well.

                                        Careers are kinda a gender. I felt more or less prescribed to pursue a high-paying respectable job. My parents were super against career tech at my school cause they saw it as the place all the inept went to go straight to a job then fail in life. I choose the IT route over the Digital Design route cause I felt it was The Choice They'd Expect. And then I learned nobody in this field really gives a shit about when I was quiet passionate ._.

                                        My desire has always been to pursue art, but the income simply doesn't exist so I'm stuck at a desk gig that pays vastly better for a fraction of the work and for work I just do not care about and simply perform the motions of.

                                        Also, the segment about "tech works often having literally no interest outside of tech" is so painfully true. It can almost be unnerving when engaged upon en masse.

                                        ... and and and and ...A This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ... and and and and ...A This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ... and and and and ...
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #23

                                        @iris_meredith Also, most of my work is erotic arts, which just adds a whole extra wall I depersonalize behind regularly.

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                                        • IrisI Iris

                                          New post, and this one's definitely one of my weirder ones: it's about how most of the tech industry shows symptoms of something that looks like gender dysphoria.

                                          https://deadsimpletech.com/blog/carbon_dysphoria

                                          dirkD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          dirkD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          dirk
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #24
                                          Thank you for this perspective!
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