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  3. If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US.

If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US.

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  • SnoopJS SnoopJ

    @jamie @aeva I suspect that courts would not be favorable to this reading, and would buy the (bullshit, IMO) argument that sufficient human interaction with the code "heals" the copyrightability of the result, and more importantly that they would not press the applicant to show much work when it comes to "sufficient" (that is, I suspect many judges would accept "I edited the code at all" as meeting the sufficiency criterion)

    but we're only going to find out if and when it's tested. The Copyright Office is doing the best they can do and making it clear that they won't let "AI" waste their time with copyright registrations (which are not required to legally protect a work, they're just paperwork really)

    aevaA This user is from outside of this forum
    aevaA This user is from outside of this forum
    aeva
    wrote last edited by
    #37

    @SnoopJ @jamie i think the point is this is a possible that has precedence already

    Cassandra is only carbon nowX 1 Reply Last reply
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    • aevaA aeva

      @SnoopJ @jamie i think the point is this is a possible that has precedence already

      Cassandra is only carbon nowX This user is from outside of this forum
      Cassandra is only carbon nowX This user is from outside of this forum
      Cassandra is only carbon now
      wrote last edited by
      #38

      @SnoopJ @jamie @aeva That was my read as well. IANAL, but my lay understanding was that even if the courts eventually don't act favorably towards an argument, that it exists and has precedent is enough to create legal risk?

      SnoopJS 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

        If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

        This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

        Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

        0xC0DEC0DE07EAC This user is from outside of this forum
        0xC0DEC0DE07EAC This user is from outside of this forum
        0xC0DEC0DE07EA
        wrote last edited by
        #39

        @jamie I wonder if that’ll kill the use of “AI” at work

        Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Cassandra is only carbon nowX Cassandra is only carbon now

          @SnoopJ @jamie @aeva That was my read as well. IANAL, but my lay understanding was that even if the courts eventually don't act favorably towards an argument, that it exists and has precedent is enough to create legal risk?

          SnoopJS This user is from outside of this forum
          SnoopJS This user is from outside of this forum
          SnoopJ
          wrote last edited by
          #40

          @xgranade @jamie @aeva I think it's a much stronger case for the example rejected registrations that they show on the next page, which are exclusively about copyrightability of images.

          It's largely legally untested AFAICT but based on how eagerly US courts have swallowed up the fair-use arguments of the vendors of these models, I don't have a lot of faith they would play hard-ball with a litigant who has code that has been established to have been generated, but who argues sufficiency from a "trust me, bro" perspective. (IANAL either, of course)

          I would *love* to be wrong about that though, and I'm glad that the Copyright Office has drawn a clear line in the sand on the general matter (and wish more people in tech had read either the publications themselves, or this CRS summary of same)

          aevaA 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

            If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

            This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

            Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

            ulveon.net (on derg.social)U This user is from outside of this forum
            ulveon.net (on derg.social)U This user is from outside of this forum
            ulveon.net (on derg.social)
            wrote last edited by
            #41

            @jamie@zomglol.wtf and how do you know if something is AI?

            Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • SnoopJS SnoopJ

              @xgranade @jamie @aeva I think it's a much stronger case for the example rejected registrations that they show on the next page, which are exclusively about copyrightability of images.

              It's largely legally untested AFAICT but based on how eagerly US courts have swallowed up the fair-use arguments of the vendors of these models, I don't have a lot of faith they would play hard-ball with a litigant who has code that has been established to have been generated, but who argues sufficiency from a "trust me, bro" perspective. (IANAL either, of course)

              I would *love* to be wrong about that though, and I'm glad that the Copyright Office has drawn a clear line in the sand on the general matter (and wish more people in tech had read either the publications themselves, or this CRS summary of same)

              aevaA This user is from outside of this forum
              aevaA This user is from outside of this forum
              aeva
              wrote last edited by
              #42

              @SnoopJ @xgranade @jamie ok, but i refuse to retract my pointing at the screen and nelson-from-the-simpsons-laugh that the original post inspired

              SnoopJS 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                @emma Oh yeah, shit's gonna get weird for a while and I think a lot of legislation going in during this administration as well as recent SCOTUS cases will need to be revisited. Ideally after also instituting laws around conflicts of interest with government officials that don't carve out exceptions for, oh I dunno, members of Congress, for example.

                Basically, I want the different branches of the government to fight each other again rather than the different parties.

                Emma needs ☕️ and paying workE This user is from outside of this forum
                Emma needs ☕️ and paying workE This user is from outside of this forum
                Emma needs ☕️ and paying work
                wrote last edited by
                #43

                @jamie the US needs a new constitution, but the right wingers, the religious gooners, and the billionaires should have no say in it.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • aevaA aeva

                  @SnoopJ @xgranade @jamie ok, but i refuse to retract my pointing at the screen and nelson-from-the-simpsons-laugh that the original post inspired

                  SnoopJS This user is from outside of this forum
                  SnoopJS This user is from outside of this forum
                  SnoopJ
                  wrote last edited by
                  #44

                  @aeva @xgranade @jamie agreed, you can have my HAW-HAW when you pry it from my cold dead throat

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                    If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

                    This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

                    Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

                    garyG This user is from outside of this forum
                    garyG This user is from outside of this forum
                    gary
                    wrote last edited by
                    #45

                    @jamie china is the main producer of models with open weights, open source ai, china is pushing the evolution of ai forward - what's next? probably 10x compute for smb sector

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                      If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

                      This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

                      Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

                      Celeste Ryder 🐾 🐀🏳️‍🌈B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Celeste Ryder 🐾 🐀🏳️‍🌈B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Celeste Ryder 🐾 🐀🏳️‍🌈
                      wrote last edited by
                      #46

                      @jamie so… Windows is now fair game?

                      Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                        If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

                        This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

                        Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

                        LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺L This user is from outside of this forum
                        LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺L This user is from outside of this forum
                        LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
                        wrote last edited by
                        #47

                        @jamie in the US, outside of the US exist, and when i don't like AI, until other country rules AI code is not copyrightable ... it remain copyrightable on the whole world BUT US.

                        so not it does not automatically become public domain

                        (And again i'm against AI).

                        Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                          FWIW I'm not a lawyer and I'm not recommending that you do this. 😄 Even if companies have no legal standing on copyright, their legal team will try it. It *will* cost you money.

                          But man, oh man, I'm gonna have popcorn ready for when someone inevitably pulls this move.

                          Francisca SinnF This user is from outside of this forum
                          Francisca SinnF This user is from outside of this forum
                          Francisca Sinn
                          wrote last edited by
                          #48

                          @jamie I *am* an IP lawyer and I (along with many others) have been saying it for a while, that if the position the “AI” co’s are taking with respect to the legality of scraping “publicly available” materials were true (that all “publicly available” materials are “public domain” free to be used as raw materials without consent required), then copyright ceases to exist and all their own materials will be free for everyone else to use the very first time they’re leaked. That’ll be fun for the co.

                          Jamie GaskinsJ Max L.M your auntifa liza 🇵🇷  🦛 🦦B AzuaronA Christian SchwägerlC 6 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                            If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

                            This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

                            Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

                            saxnotS This user is from outside of this forum
                            saxnotS This user is from outside of this forum
                            saxnot
                            wrote last edited by
                            #49

                            @jamie where does it say "the entire codebase"?
                            I reas it exactly opposite.

                            Copyright on own contributions

                            Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                              If you use AI-generated code, you currently cannot claim copyright on it in the US. If you fail to disclose/disclaim exactly which parts were not written by a human, you forfeit your copyright claim on *the entire codebase*.

                              This means copyright notices and even licenses folks are putting on their vibe-coded GitHub repos are unenforceable. The AI-generated code, and possibly the whole project, becomes public domain.

                              Source: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/LSB/PDF/LSB10922/LSB10922.8.pdf

                              BagsM This user is from outside of this forum
                              BagsM This user is from outside of this forum
                              Bags
                              wrote last edited by
                              #50

                              @jamie win win for the creatives and for slop-craft

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • tuban_muzuruT tuban_muzuru

                                @jamie

                                Stop whining. You and about seventy zillion terrified sheep running around here bleating about the Terrible AI monster under the bed.

                                mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)A This user is from outside of this forum
                                mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)A This user is from outside of this forum
                                mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)
                                wrote last edited by
                                #51

                                @tuban_muzuru i hope you write a program some day

                                @jamie

                                Jamie GaskinsJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • tuban_muzuruT tuban_muzuru

                                  @jamie

                                  Stop whining. You and about seventy zillion terrified sheep running around here bleating about the Terrible AI monster under the bed.

                                  lodditeL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  lodditeL This user is from outside of this forum
                                  loddite
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #52

                                  @tuban_muzuru @jamie stop fighting! cant you see youre tearing us apart!!!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • Jamie GaskinsJ Jamie Gaskins

                                    It'll be interesting to see what happens when a company pisses off an employee to the point where that person creates a public repo containing all the company's AI-generated code. I guarantee what's AI-generated and what's human-written isn't called out anywhere in the code, meaning the entire codebase becomes public domain.

                                    While the company may have recourse based on the employment agreement (which varies in enforceability by state), I doubt there'd be any on the basis of copyright.

                                    狐ヴィクシーK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    狐ヴィクシーK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    狐ヴィクシー
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #53

                                    @jamie@zomglol.wtf Anthropic claims Claude coded the current version of Claude.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Donald BallD This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Donald BallD This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Donald Ball
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #54

                                      @tuban_muzuru You conduct yourself like a real asshole.

                                      tuban_muzuruT 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • LeelooL Leeloo

                                        @jamie
                                        Well, someone still needs to decide at some point whether to abolish copyright or start enforcing it again, and at that point it could become a huge problem for anyone who has incorporated stolen code into their code base.

                                        Jamie GaskinsJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jamie GaskinsJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jamie Gaskins
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #55

                                        @leeloo Strong agree!

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • 0xC0DEC0DE07EAC 0xC0DEC0DE07EA

                                          @jamie I wonder if that’ll kill the use of “AI” at work

                                          Jamie GaskinsJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jamie GaskinsJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jamie Gaskins
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #56

                                          @c0dec0dec0de I'm honestly surprised that startups take on this risk.

                                          0xC0DEC0DE07EAC 1 Reply Last reply
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