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  3. The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

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  • George BG George B

    @futurebird

    One thing I believe (without evidence because I don't think anyone tried it) is that broken windows policing can actually work if the first step is to aggressively clean up all corruption within the precinct first.

    This includes "small" things like flashing police lights to run a red instead of waiting for the green while not actively dealing with an emergency.

    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
    myrmepropagandist
    wrote last edited by
    #8

    @gbargoud

    "broken windows" has never been used to describe doing that, but rather to sell the idea.

    George BG 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

      The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

      What we have are the Democrats and like... maybe six of them are up for the task? Maybe?

      Maybe more. I do not know every democrat.

      But, if part of what you are going to do is clean up the corruption it would be wise to let everyone who is "a little corrupt" in that old "tolerable" way quietly leave right now.

      bobB This user is from outside of this forum
      bobB This user is from outside of this forum
      bob
      wrote last edited by
      #9

      @futurebird a handful of democrats and a handful of republicans

      myrmepropagandistF 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

        Because, if you can't deliver "good government" and making the rule of law function on rich people like IDK... one time in ten at least?

        Well then we just need to find the most "extreme" person we can and hope that will do something.

        I'm so damn fed up.

        Kevin RussellK This user is from outside of this forum
        Kevin RussellK This user is from outside of this forum
        Kevin Russell
        wrote last edited by
        #10

        @futurebird

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • bobB bob

          @futurebird a handful of democrats and a handful of republicans

          myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
          myrmepropagandistF This user is from outside of this forum
          myrmepropagandist
          wrote last edited by
          #11

          @bob

          Yeah like two?

          bobB 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

            Because, if you can't deliver "good government" and making the rule of law function on rich people like IDK... one time in ten at least?

            Well then we just need to find the most "extreme" person we can and hope that will do something.

            I'm so damn fed up.

            bobB This user is from outside of this forum
            bobB This user is from outside of this forum
            bob
            wrote last edited by
            #12

            @futurebird "good government" isn't enough for the current moment, we're in the middle of a regime shift (for reasons that weren't caused by politics) and since the present is literally untenable someone needs to articulate a future people want

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

              @bob

              Yeah like two?

              bobB This user is from outside of this forum
              bobB This user is from outside of this forum
              bob
              wrote last edited by
              #13

              @futurebird there were like five but yeah I think there are only two left

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                @gbargoud

                "broken windows" has never been used to describe doing that, but rather to sell the idea.

                George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                George B
                wrote last edited by
                #14

                @futurebird

                Oh yeah definitely. It's always "oh we'll call it a focus on quality of life issues so we can harass people for small stuff specifically in poorer neighborhoods".

                But it's loosely based on some sound theories around how people will follow the examples in their environment.

                George BG 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • George BG George B

                  @futurebird

                  Oh yeah definitely. It's always "oh we'll call it a focus on quality of life issues so we can harass people for small stuff specifically in poorer neighborhoods".

                  But it's loosely based on some sound theories around how people will follow the examples in their environment.

                  George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                  George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                  George B
                  wrote last edited by
                  #15

                  @futurebird

                  Theories that ironically explain why police departments are so bad, their acceptance of petty corruption and power trips opens the door for larger and larger examples

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                    The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

                    What we have are the Democrats and like... maybe six of them are up for the task? Maybe?

                    Maybe more. I do not know every democrat.

                    But, if part of what you are going to do is clean up the corruption it would be wise to let everyone who is "a little corrupt" in that old "tolerable" way quietly leave right now.

                    dstuT This user is from outside of this forum
                    dstuT This user is from outside of this forum
                    dstu
                    wrote last edited by
                    #16

                    @futurebird could there be any remedy in a Texas-style law suit which allows private citizens to file civil suits against people in other states whom they suspect of corrupting a political process or civil office?

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                      I can even make this enticing to the Neo-liberals: I know that "moderate democrats" are upset at how "extreme" their voters have become.

                      If some of them thought ya'll could really clean this up that'd take a lot of air out of the extremity.

                      But... I am realizing that I think these are the same people who don't see the point of doing government if they can't be "a little corrupt" so this will never work.

                      Viva la revolution. I'm all in.

                      Dave Wilburn :donor:D This user is from outside of this forum
                      Dave Wilburn :donor:D This user is from outside of this forum
                      Dave Wilburn :donor:
                      wrote last edited by
                      #17

                      @futurebird

                      I used to be the most moderate of moderate voters. Bog standard in every conceivable dimension. My policy preferences were all painted in a thick coat of beige. If you looked up "median voter" in the dictionary, you would find my picture.

                      The last decade of Trump and the failed attempts to hold him accountable and bar him from political power radicalized me.

                      None of the powerful institutions that make moderate or neo-lib politics work can do any good without exhaustive efforts towards accountability and reform.

                      Want to engage in military adventurism abroad? Well, you can't engage in meaningful military interventions with a military whose sole combat experience is occupying itself to crush dissent and killing unarmed civilians in boats in the Caribbean, whose naval fleets are filled with stupid Trump-class battleships, whose allies have all been alienated, and whose leadership and personnel have been purged of women, minorities, trans, and anyone other than politically reliable sycophants.

                      Want to restore law and order to crack down on serious crime? Sorry, can't do that once Trump has hollowed out DOJ and left our federal law enforcement officers without any skills except rounding up harmless dark skinned people for sport.

                      Want to restore America's standing in the global economy with pro-business policies? Sorry, can't do that if the rest of the world doesn't trust us enough to invest in our companies or buy their products.

                      And you can't safely rebuild those institutions until you're sure they can't be used against ourselves. Otherwise we're just one election away from all of this nightmare happening again, driven by a combination of remorseless extremists, a bored, disengaged, and disenfranchised electorate, and structural flaws in our democracy.

                      Even for moderates and neo-libs, you cannot achieve your goals without accountability and reform. Without accountability and reform, all of those institutions are just loaded guns left loose in a room full of toddlers.

                      #uspol

                      Violet MadderV 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                        Because, if you can't deliver "good government" and making the rule of law function on rich people like IDK... one time in ten at least?

                        Well then we just need to find the most "extreme" person we can and hope that will do something.

                        I'm so damn fed up.

                        llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                        llewellyL This user is from outside of this forum
                        llewelly
                        wrote last edited by
                        #18

                        @futurebird in most of the important Senate votes in 2021 and 2022, it was 48 anti-corruption dems+indepents, out of 50 total, including the independents. The 2 exceptions were Manchild and Sinema. That's effectively 96% anti-corruption cooperation for dem+independ senators. But since the other 50 seats in the senate were held by the GOP, 96% cooperation wasn't enough. It only took 1 ringer to ruin everything, and in most votes there were 2. That's how 96% good becomes ineffective.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                          The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

                          What we have are the Democrats and like... maybe six of them are up for the task? Maybe?

                          Maybe more. I do not know every democrat.

                          But, if part of what you are going to do is clean up the corruption it would be wise to let everyone who is "a little corrupt" in that old "tolerable" way quietly leave right now.

                          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                          Irenes (many)I This user is from outside of this forum
                          Irenes (many)
                          wrote last edited by
                          #19

                          @futurebird absolutely. there is no path to justice that doesn't involve getting all these evil fucks out of power, regardless of partisan affiliation.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                            The US needs a whole party of "corruption liquidators"

                            What we have are the Democrats and like... maybe six of them are up for the task? Maybe?

                            Maybe more. I do not know every democrat.

                            But, if part of what you are going to do is clean up the corruption it would be wise to let everyone who is "a little corrupt" in that old "tolerable" way quietly leave right now.

                            QuasitQ This user is from outside of this forum
                            QuasitQ This user is from outside of this forum
                            Quasit
                            wrote last edited by
                            #20

                            @futurebird I'm sorry, NONE of them are up to the task. Trust a democrat, and you'll get knifed in the back every time.

                            Trust a Republican, and you'll get knifed in the throat every time.

                            That's the only difference.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Dave Wilburn :donor:D Dave Wilburn :donor:

                              @futurebird

                              I used to be the most moderate of moderate voters. Bog standard in every conceivable dimension. My policy preferences were all painted in a thick coat of beige. If you looked up "median voter" in the dictionary, you would find my picture.

                              The last decade of Trump and the failed attempts to hold him accountable and bar him from political power radicalized me.

                              None of the powerful institutions that make moderate or neo-lib politics work can do any good without exhaustive efforts towards accountability and reform.

                              Want to engage in military adventurism abroad? Well, you can't engage in meaningful military interventions with a military whose sole combat experience is occupying itself to crush dissent and killing unarmed civilians in boats in the Caribbean, whose naval fleets are filled with stupid Trump-class battleships, whose allies have all been alienated, and whose leadership and personnel have been purged of women, minorities, trans, and anyone other than politically reliable sycophants.

                              Want to restore law and order to crack down on serious crime? Sorry, can't do that once Trump has hollowed out DOJ and left our federal law enforcement officers without any skills except rounding up harmless dark skinned people for sport.

                              Want to restore America's standing in the global economy with pro-business policies? Sorry, can't do that if the rest of the world doesn't trust us enough to invest in our companies or buy their products.

                              And you can't safely rebuild those institutions until you're sure they can't be used against ourselves. Otherwise we're just one election away from all of this nightmare happening again, driven by a combination of remorseless extremists, a bored, disengaged, and disenfranchised electorate, and structural flaws in our democracy.

                              Even for moderates and neo-libs, you cannot achieve your goals without accountability and reform. Without accountability and reform, all of those institutions are just loaded guns left loose in a room full of toddlers.

                              #uspol

                              Violet MadderV This user is from outside of this forum
                              Violet MadderV This user is from outside of this forum
                              Violet Madder
                              wrote last edited by
                              #21

                              @DaveMWilburn @futurebird

                              And then watching the SAME pattern play out in multiple countries at once, over generations, tells me it's a STRATEGY, this is the playbook. The only major difference between neoconservatives and neoliberals is that one is aggressive and the other is passive aggressive. The agenda is the same, but only one will smile sweetly and use Non-Violent Communication as they're getting it done.

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