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  3. What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

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  • 🆎B 🆎

    What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

    paulA This user is from outside of this forum
    paulA This user is from outside of this forum
    paul
    wrote last edited by
    #117

    @bloor

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauda_equina

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

      @hiisikoloart @bloor

      In theory, it’s people who care a lot about audio quality. They often claim to have better than average frequency range in their ears (many do, but a lot claim to hear things only bats can actually hear).

      For a long time, a lot of consumer audio equipment was pretty terrible, so there were real reasons for wanting something better, I remember listening to a CD that I’d heard many times on my CD player and ripped to my iPad and discovering that CD player from the ‘80s had completely lost a load of low-volume bits and there was material that would probably have been audible on an expensive player in the ‘80s and was easily audible on a cheap player in the early 2000s.

      At the same time, the Loudness War happened. Music execs found that people were more likely to like music if it was loud the first time they heard it. So they started making CDs louder. But CDs have a fixed dynamic range, so making it loader lost detail. They couldn’t do this with records because the needle would jump out of the track, so we had a weird period where LPs had better audio fidelity than CDs. Unfortunately, LPs are really finicky and it’s very easy to scratch them if you don’t perfectly balance the stylus to avoid more than minuscule pressure on the surface.

      So, to listen to the highest-quality music, you needed a moderately expensive record deck, a decent amplifier (and pre-amp: again, LPs are annoying to play), and speakers. And it was fairly noticeable if you got any of these wrong.

      But then DACs got a lot better. Cheap USB audio adaptors for computers had much better precision than anything available in the ‘80s, and could be placed outside of the case and away from RF interference from the computer. AAC audio supports a variable dynamic range (so bumping the loudness is just a scaling factor, not a loss of precision). Baseline speaker and amplifier quality improved a lot. By the mid 2000s, fairly cheap equipment gave better sound quality than anything you could buy in the ‘90s.

      By then, an entire industry had grown up to cater to people who wanted the best sound quality possible and an even larger group of people who wanted to be seen as having the best sound quality. It moved from music appreciation to conspicuous consumption as a primary market driver. And that made it a ripe target for scams.

      For analogue things, there were obvious things you could sell, like cables with gold-plated connectors. Gold is a good conductor and, unlike copper, doesn’t corrode, so this would make a difference (whether the difference is audible is another matter). But the move to mostly digital paths made this harder. You got very silly things like ‘audiophile grade’ Ethernet cables and optical connectors, which ignored the fact that the digital protocols had built-in error correction and that audio is staggeringly low bandwidth in comparison to other things carried over these connections so there’s space for a lot of error correction. A load of these things can be run over a wire coathanger with no loss in quality.

      The entire ecosystem became dominated by very silly things. But they’re all quite interesting because they have some plausible-looking science behind them, which then goes off in a nonsense direction. For example, Ethernet is an electrical protocol, so signal quality matters. Gold is a good conductor. Gold connectors on Ethernet cables will reduce signal degradation. Pay no attention to the fact that the Ethernet standard is specified based on specifically rated cables and won’t be any better on ones with marginally better connectors.

      My guess from the picture is that someone has noticed that electrical noise from a power supply can be a problem and has built something that looks very plausibly like it would solve that.

      Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" Quéru
      wrote last edited by
      #118

      @david_chisnall @hiisikoloart @bloor In photography, we have measurbators.

      Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹D 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • D IngramI D Ingram

        @dazo @tony @bloor Psychology works both ways. When I bought an amp and speakers (1990s) I declined to buy cable. I said that I'd use mains flex (Electronics Australia had tested it and shown good results), knowing it would wind up the salesperson. He couldn't bear for that to be done so ended up giving me about 4m of silly Kimber Kable. It does the job, but no way was I paying for it.

        🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
        🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
        🔗 David Sommerseth
        wrote last edited by
        #119

        @ingram @tony @bloor

        If it would have been me, I would have accepted as well - but sold the cables afterwards 🤪

        I see Kimble twists the pairs. The physics behind the twisting does have an effect. That can be calculated and there will be scientific evidence of the effect. There are no doubts here.

        But it will not be noticeable on shorter lengths for home hifi equipment use, as well as the current and voltage in home hifi systems. You probably need to go at least 20-30m, probably even higher like closer to 100m and above to have a noticeable effect. Which is why the Electronics Australia findings are accurate and valid.

        And if your home hifi loudspeaker and amp are 20-100m or more apart ... then you have a setup which would require some rethinking for a lot of other reasons.

        Of course, such details like this stings a lot if you've cashed out a lot of money for 5m of speaker cables. Then you "need" to claim you hear the difference to feel less like an, well, idiot.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • 🆎B 🆎

          What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

          GondorG This user is from outside of this forum
          GondorG This user is from outside of this forum
          Gondor
          wrote last edited by
          #120

          @bloor
          Missing some led lighting here.🤔
          Or will that be the next version?
          😁

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • 🆎B 🆎

            What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

            BrandonB This user is from outside of this forum
            BrandonB This user is from outside of this forum
            Brandon
            wrote last edited by
            #121

            @bloor breakout cable

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Tony HoyleT This user is from outside of this forum
              Tony HoyleT This user is from outside of this forum
              Tony Hoyle
              wrote last edited by
              #122

              @ben @dazo @bloor Like this for example.. looks suspiciously like someone rebranded a £10 netgear switch..

              https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/english-electric-8switch-audio-grade-ethernet-switch

              🔗 David SommersethD LandsilL 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • 🆎B 🆎

                What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

                MecrispM This user is from outside of this forum
                MecrispM This user is from outside of this forum
                Mecrisp
                wrote last edited by
                #123

                @bloor Looks like an special type of antenna feed line: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusenleitung Love the aesthetics, but hope the insulation is up for the mains task.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Tony HoyleT Tony Hoyle

                  @ben @dazo @bloor Like this for example.. looks suspiciously like someone rebranded a £10 netgear switch..

                  https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/english-electric-8switch-audio-grade-ethernet-switch

                  🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
                  🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
                  🔗 David Sommerseth
                  wrote last edited by
                  #124

                  @tony @ben @bloor

                  Audio Grade Ethernet Switch

                  😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • 🆎B 🆎

                    What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

                    Reinald KirchnerR This user is from outside of this forum
                    Reinald KirchnerR This user is from outside of this forum
                    Reinald Kirchner
                    wrote last edited by
                    #125

                    @bloor absolutely brilliant. I love it.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • 🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
                      🔗 David SommersethD This user is from outside of this forum
                      🔗 David Sommerseth
                      wrote last edited by
                      #126

                      @ben @tony @bloor

                      The difference in the ProTools checks might have been the cable, but can just as well have been some other related things. Signals can be affected by magnetic interference (audio is AC voltage), so if there are other power cables laying closer or further away from the speaker or signal cables may just be enough to make a slight difference. Or if the cable was too long and curled up vs being straight. In some cases with power cables, other equipments plugged in at the same power outlet may cause a slight difference - due to the power drawn, which impacts the magnetic aspects.

                      In regards to the magnetism aspects ... you know the amp measurement devices you just clamp over the cable, not actually connecting to wires ... that's just a coil "wrapped around" the cable measuring the magnetic field and from that calculates the amps passing through.

                      But yeah, for digital signal paths .... it's all in the DAC at that point. Of course, disrupted bits in the transfer can cause noise. But not clarity details. And the digital signal paths certainly has enough error correction to not bit-flip data hitting the DAC in the end. Gee, that's just hilarious.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • 🆎B 🆎

                        What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

                        GroßStadtPflanze :verified:E This user is from outside of this forum
                        GroßStadtPflanze :verified:E This user is from outside of this forum
                        GroßStadtPflanze :verified:
                        wrote last edited by
                        #127

                        @bloor Staubsauger-Roboter!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Vince 🔜 FOSDEMV Vince 🔜 FOSDEM

                          @hiisikoloart @bloor people who use music to listen to their audio equipment, instead of the other way around.

                          HiisikoloartH This user is from outside of this forum
                          HiisikoloartH This user is from outside of this forum
                          Hiisikoloart
                          wrote last edited by
                          #128

                          @vincep @bloor
                          Sounds like magic to me. (^_^)*

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • BaccoF Bacco

                            @Jes @bloor
                            This revew of audiophile rocks is hilarious. Sadly the website and youtube channel are now closed

                            http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

                            Jes - Hedgehog Edition J This user is from outside of this forum
                            Jes - Hedgehog Edition J This user is from outside of this forum
                            Jes - Hedgehog Edition
                            wrote last edited by
                            #129
                            @fast9881 @bloor that's a shame I loved his videos
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

                              @hiisikoloart @bloor

                              In theory, it’s people who care a lot about audio quality. They often claim to have better than average frequency range in their ears (many do, but a lot claim to hear things only bats can actually hear).

                              For a long time, a lot of consumer audio equipment was pretty terrible, so there were real reasons for wanting something better, I remember listening to a CD that I’d heard many times on my CD player and ripped to my iPad and discovering that CD player from the ‘80s had completely lost a load of low-volume bits and there was material that would probably have been audible on an expensive player in the ‘80s and was easily audible on a cheap player in the early 2000s.

                              At the same time, the Loudness War happened. Music execs found that people were more likely to like music if it was loud the first time they heard it. So they started making CDs louder. But CDs have a fixed dynamic range, so making it loader lost detail. They couldn’t do this with records because the needle would jump out of the track, so we had a weird period where LPs had better audio fidelity than CDs. Unfortunately, LPs are really finicky and it’s very easy to scratch them if you don’t perfectly balance the stylus to avoid more than minuscule pressure on the surface.

                              So, to listen to the highest-quality music, you needed a moderately expensive record deck, a decent amplifier (and pre-amp: again, LPs are annoying to play), and speakers. And it was fairly noticeable if you got any of these wrong.

                              But then DACs got a lot better. Cheap USB audio adaptors for computers had much better precision than anything available in the ‘80s, and could be placed outside of the case and away from RF interference from the computer. AAC audio supports a variable dynamic range (so bumping the loudness is just a scaling factor, not a loss of precision). Baseline speaker and amplifier quality improved a lot. By the mid 2000s, fairly cheap equipment gave better sound quality than anything you could buy in the ‘90s.

                              By then, an entire industry had grown up to cater to people who wanted the best sound quality possible and an even larger group of people who wanted to be seen as having the best sound quality. It moved from music appreciation to conspicuous consumption as a primary market driver. And that made it a ripe target for scams.

                              For analogue things, there were obvious things you could sell, like cables with gold-plated connectors. Gold is a good conductor and, unlike copper, doesn’t corrode, so this would make a difference (whether the difference is audible is another matter). But the move to mostly digital paths made this harder. You got very silly things like ‘audiophile grade’ Ethernet cables and optical connectors, which ignored the fact that the digital protocols had built-in error correction and that audio is staggeringly low bandwidth in comparison to other things carried over these connections so there’s space for a lot of error correction. A load of these things can be run over a wire coathanger with no loss in quality.

                              The entire ecosystem became dominated by very silly things. But they’re all quite interesting because they have some plausible-looking science behind them, which then goes off in a nonsense direction. For example, Ethernet is an electrical protocol, so signal quality matters. Gold is a good conductor. Gold connectors on Ethernet cables will reduce signal degradation. Pay no attention to the fact that the Ethernet standard is specified based on specifically rated cables and won’t be any better on ones with marginally better connectors.

                              My guess from the picture is that someone has noticed that electrical noise from a power supply can be a problem and has built something that looks very plausibly like it would solve that.

                              HiisikoloartH This user is from outside of this forum
                              HiisikoloartH This user is from outside of this forum
                              Hiisikoloart
                              wrote last edited by
                              #130

                              @david_chisnall @bloor
                              That was a lot of interesting words. 🙂
                              Thank you for trying to explain this to me.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • penguin42P This user is from outside of this forum
                                penguin42P This user is from outside of this forum
                                penguin42
                                wrote last edited by
                                #131

                                @PeterLG @bloor Can you think of a better way to spread mains hum?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • 🆎B 🆎

                                  What the, and I cannot overstate this, fuck?

                                  EoinE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  EoinE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Eoin
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #132

                                  @bloor
                                  A wee bit like squirrel cage HF antennae - measured for a particular frequency but the multiple conductors gave very wide bandwidth. But that only works at radio frequencies....
                                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cage_aerial

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Tony HoyleT Tony Hoyle

                                    @ben @dazo @bloor Like this for example.. looks suspiciously like someone rebranded a £10 netgear switch..

                                    https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/english-electric-8switch-audio-grade-ethernet-switch

                                    LandsilL This user is from outside of this forum
                                    LandsilL This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Landsil
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #133

                                    @tony @ben @dazo @bloor

                                    Early days with this product but first impressions are very positive. The sound is now “calmer” you get the impression the performers have more time and space. The entire frequency range is sharper but without being brittle. There’s just a rightness with the music, I am drawn in to the music, more engaged and that is what the listener is always striving for. I think the English Electric 8Switch is a keeper!

                                    What are those people smoking?
                                    Can I have some?

                                    🔗 David SommersethD 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Wendizen 🇺🇦W Wendizen 🇺🇦

                                      @bloor Wut kinda crazy assed spider sht is this?

                                      Commander Realo :trekbadgetng:J This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Commander Realo :trekbadgetng:J This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Commander Realo :trekbadgetng:
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #134

                                      @wendinoakland This is already a meme. https://mastodon.social/@rotopenguin/115981213384396107 @bloor

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" Quéru

                                        @david_chisnall @hiisikoloart @bloor In photography, we have measurbators.

                                        Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #135

                                        @jbqueru@floss.social @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange @hiisikoloart@writing.exchange @bloor@bloor.tw If you want a example of quirky hardware aimed at audiophiles, this is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM

                                        Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ HiisikoloartH 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹D Drayventhal's Weasel Nest 🪹

                                          @jbqueru@floss.social @david_chisnall@infosec.exchange @hiisikoloart@writing.exchange @bloor@bloor.tw If you want a example of quirky hardware aimed at audiophiles, this is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM

                                          Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" Quéru
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #136

                                          @Drayventhal @bloor @hiisikoloart @david_chisnall wow, we were already making fun of those people 30+ years ago.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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