Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
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Thanks. It was over 40 years ago and that brief interaction made such a difference in me.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
Want to piss off the board. Go ahead and talk like them to them. Be sure you wear pants when you do so your legs don't distract them. Glad I don't work there anymore.
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@scottwilson lol, I couldn't to much worse then the current asshole!
@alice @scottwilson @semitones
My Roomba (so old it does not connect to the Internet) would be better than The Fat Guy.
Both just bump around until they need to nap/recharge.
But at least my Roomba does something useful.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Like in Pixar‘s short film „Purl“
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Good lord. What a toxic culture.
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@alice Yeah that is the case and I have done this exact thing too. BUT, it IS a gender thing because we are privileging the gender socialization of men. Because the thing is, why are we asking women to spend OUR energy leaning into men's socialized habits of domination in conversation, instead of asking men to lean into learning how to chill the fuck out and be more cooperative conversationally? (They might even like it better!)
@_L1vY_ @alice Probably because the centuries of patriarchy have shaped current business structures.
This is not an excuse! Being aware of the history just helps to understand the issue.
In this case change is necessary, but fighting expectations shaped over decades will take time as well.
It is also a question of business type: I worked in marketing companies (85% women, meetings still dominated by dominance and hot air) and now industry (no nonsense attitude, even though 90% men).
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
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@momo @alice
Long reply
We all do it; we are human. Things we are passionate about we can't help ourselves.What I am **trying** to learn to do when I interrupt someone else, and I realize it during - I apologize. "Sorry for interrupting, I got ahead of myself. Please continue". If I realize afterwards, I apologize as well of course.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I remember this one coworker, Dave, who was so sharp, insightful, etc, but also soft spoken and didn't speak up that often. He had one of those vibes where everybody else could be talking over each other, but all he'd have to do is clear his throat and everyone else would stop their chest pounding and stfu because they knew whatever he was about to say was going to be gold.
I aspire to be like Dave.
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@alice @cyberspice fucking flawless.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I'm constantly talking the most in some meetings and I have no idea if it is because I'm a dude, I have ADHD and it takes effort to not talk, or because I'm the only extrovert in a room full of super quiet introverts.
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@alice I'm constantly talking the most in some meetings and I have no idea if it is because I'm a dude, I have ADHD and it takes effort to not talk, or because I'm the only extrovert in a room full of super quiet introverts.
@mikemccaffrey probably a combination
️At least you're aware of it, so you can make choices about how you talk around others 🩷
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice great observation. It wasn’t until I moved to a foreign land in a language that I could not speak fluently that I learned to listen. And I realised of how much of an over talker I was. Unless there is someone pulling out the thoughts of all, the unacertive, the slow (analytical) thinker, the neurodivergent you will never realise the wisdom of the group. And as to video/audio calls... They need a moderator and allow individuals the medium the best like: audio, visual, chat
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
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@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
@isaacfreeman @alice
A random data point: I stopped interrupting people once I started taking Adderall. I've compared notes with two other women who also take some version of Adderall, and they said they had the same experience -
@isaacfreeman @alice
A random data point: I stopped interrupting people once I started taking Adderall. I've compared notes with two other women who also take some version of Adderall, and they said they had the same experience -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice@lgbtqia.space another thing
ive noticed some people have a uh talent for talking at people without giving any gaps for people to come in
like
i really want to says smth but like u haven't given me space to say anything
and its only possible to converse with such people if you are comfortable interrupting people which i am not(unless i know you well) -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I get that
I have to do performative chest thumping with certain areas of medicine
When I want to get things done, I interrupt the interruptors and give time to the quiet and the interrupted
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@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
@isaacfreeman some of the people I've liked talking to the most in life are good at taking turns in conversations. They typically:
- attempt to pass the mic every few sentences
- ask little questions that elicit good responses
- start their turn with an acknowledgement
- pay attention to body language
- broadcast when they're switching topicsWhen we both do this, it ensures we regularly switch who's talking and who's actively listening, engage the other person in the conversation, make the other person feel heard, are aware of the other person's feelings, and give them a chance to finish their thoughts before leaving the current topic.
It sounds way more complicated when I write it out, but it's basically "watch your partner so you can graciously accept the mic, and then graciously give it back".
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice
Not just taught, but actually rewarded for doing so and punished for not.A silent man is assumed to be stupid or cowardly, and insufficiently ambitious, while a loud and intrusive man, especially one that could appear confident, even when out of their depth, would be rewarded and promoted.
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