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  1. Home
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  3. Bullshit.

Bullshit.

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blackmastodon
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  • Ivey Janette McClellandI Ivey Janette McClelland

    Bullshit.

    #blackmastodon
    https://newsone.com/6850753/tourettes-tic-blamed-nword-being-yelled-baftas/

    saucerlostS This user is from outside of this forum
    saucerlostS This user is from outside of this forum
    saucerlost
    wrote last edited by
    #48

    @IveyJanette
    The goals were definitely to normalize using the word and force kinder people to defend it behind a shield of disability. This just so happens to pop off while white supremacists are power grabbing worldwide? 100% bullshit. This racist psyop is disgusting, and people need to be smarter than this.

    Ivey Janette McClellandI 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆW Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

      @johnbrowntypeface @IveyJanette Yup

      john.brown_typefaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
      john.brown_typefaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
      john.brown_typeface
      wrote last edited by
      #49

      @wendinoakland @IveyJanette
      my point being that the company he keeps is us, the human race

      Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆW 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • john.brown_typefaceJ john.brown_typeface

        @wendinoakland @IveyJanette
        my point being that the company he keeps is us, the human race

        Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆW This user is from outside of this forum
        Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆW This user is from outside of this forum
        Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ
        wrote last edited by
        #50

        @johnbrowntypeface @IveyJanette Weโ€™re so disappointing.

        john.brown_typefaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆW Wendizen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

          @johnbrowntypeface @IveyJanette Weโ€™re so disappointing.

          john.brown_typefaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
          john.brown_typefaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
          john.brown_typeface
          wrote last edited by
          #51

          @wendinoakland @IveyJanette
          true

          sometimes we surprise ourselves, though

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • Roy -- the dull oneO Roy -- the dull one

            1of3
            @msbellows

            Thanks for a reasonable attitude about offensive words sometimes associated with Tourette's syndrome (TS). TS behaviors can be maddening, but I think those of us who don't know the condition have to be careful to avoid interpreting intentions wrongly.

            Some nonverbal TS behaviors show that TS outbursts don't necessarily reveal "true intentions" of people who display TS.

            Roy -- the dull oneO This user is from outside of this forum
            Roy -- the dull oneO This user is from outside of this forum
            Roy -- the dull one
            wrote last edited by
            #52

            @msbellows
            2of3

            I nearly had a collision at a parking lot entrance. The gate lifted, but the driver ahead of me did not move. He stared at me in his mirror for >5 min, until I moved to go around him. When I did, he suddenly hit his accelerator and jerked his steering to dart in front of me. Slamming brakes, I missed collision by a margin <<6 inches. I knew the man, but only after this did I find he was a TS sufferer.

            M.S. Bellows, Jr.M 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Andrea is wearing a kufiT Andrea is wearing a kufi

              @rochelimit "Embarrassing" is an odd replacement for the more accurate "harmful."

              Roche LimitR This user is from outside of this forum
              Roche LimitR This user is from outside of this forum
              Roche Limit
              wrote last edited by
              #53

              @thiswomanswerk
              Perhaps both statements are true?

              I would also hope that hearing slur words from someone with a declared nuerological disorder would be less harmful than hearing slurs from swastika covered neo-nazi.

              Context is important, rather than simply the sounds making up a word, surely?

              Andrea is wearing a kufiT PeachMcDP 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • M.S. Bellows, Jr.M M.S. Bellows, Jr.

                Hoo boy. I have a lot of complicated thoughts and feelings around the BAFTA incident, in part because I have Tourette's (though, thank God, not coprolalia) AND am a lawyer/mediator specializing in disability accommodations (in educational settings). In a nutshell, though:

                1. Unless he's a secret racist who shouted the n-word intentionally, the utterance itself truly was an involuntary act for which the speaker should not be blamed. Coprolalia isn't random; it makes people say the MOST transgressive thing possible in the context, which is exactly what happened here. It's troubling to me that some people refuse to accept this reality, which is a form of ableism.

                2. The harm to Black people hearing that word nevertheless is extremely real, and the organizers completely fucked up both in how they structured the show and in responding to it afterwards. I understand that the speaker is a Tourette's activist, so I'm guessing both he and the organizers wanted some of the obscenities to be heard by the audience because, yeah, sometimes one person's disability is a little awkward for the people around them, and the people around them need to grow the fuck up and learn to accept it. But that doesn't mean that the harm to hearers can be ignored, especially when racist terms, not just obscene ones, are part of the person's known vocabulary. Disability accommodations require creativity and compromise; that doesn't seem to have happened here, other than a statement given to the audience at the start explaining his disability (which: good, but that approach alone fails to account for the substantial difference between ordinary vulgarities and racist obscenities). And the subsequent rationale that "Look, this is just the nature of Tourette's!" as if disability trumps racism is pitifully inadequate, because it ignores the harm to Black viewers. Tourette's sucks. Racism sucks. Don't minimize either one.

                3. BBC has absolutely no excuse for not bleeping out the n-word even if they left in the other vulgarities, and for them to refuse to do so โ€“ to treat the n word as if it were no different than "fuck" โ€“ shows a profound insensitivity and colonialist mindset, and someone needs to get fired โ€“ especially because presumably the same person did bleep out "free Palestine!"

                C++ Wage SlaveC This user is from outside of this forum
                C++ Wage SlaveC This user is from outside of this forum
                C++ Wage Slave
                wrote last edited by
                #54

                @msbellows

                Of course, the BBC has no excuse. The programme was broadcast with a two-hour delay: more than enough time to bleep out the deeply offensive language.

                FWIW, the BBC has now apologised for its failure, and has pulled the ceremony from iPlayer.

                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6edwg06n1o

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • saucerlostS saucerlost

                  @IveyJanette
                  The goals were definitely to normalize using the word and force kinder people to defend it behind a shield of disability. This just so happens to pop off while white supremacists are power grabbing worldwide? 100% bullshit. This racist psyop is disgusting, and people need to be smarter than this.

                  Ivey Janette McClellandI This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ivey Janette McClellandI This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ivey Janette McClelland
                  wrote last edited by
                  #55

                  @saucerlost And I fear that he was a plant by the tabloids to intentionally cause chaos.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Roy -- the dull oneO Roy -- the dull one

                    @msbellows
                    2of3

                    I nearly had a collision at a parking lot entrance. The gate lifted, but the driver ahead of me did not move. He stared at me in his mirror for >5 min, until I moved to go around him. When I did, he suddenly hit his accelerator and jerked his steering to dart in front of me. Slamming brakes, I missed collision by a margin <<6 inches. I knew the man, but only after this did I find he was a TS sufferer.

                    M.S. Bellows, Jr.M This user is from outside of this forum
                    M.S. Bellows, Jr.M This user is from outside of this forum
                    M.S. Bellows, Jr.
                    wrote last edited by
                    #56

                    @oldclumsy_nowmad Oh, that's a PERFECT example of what went wrong with BAFTA! That other driver isn't at fault for blanking out, but he IS at fault for choosing to drive if he knew it might be hazardous to other people.

                    Roy -- the dull oneO 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • M.S. Bellows, Jr.M M.S. Bellows, Jr.

                      @rozeboosje My Tourettes doesn't include coprolalia, thank God, but yes, that's exactly how it feels when I suppress my tics. Sometimes I don't even notice that I'm ticcing. When I do notice it, I can suppress it to some extent for a while, but the pressure does build until I just HAVE to tic, and when I finally do it's like a dam bursting and I'll tic severely for a short period. Sometimes I can redirect the impulse by jiggling my leg, and for some reason that takes some of the pressure off, but never permanently.

                      Just like autistic people with stimming behaviors, it's becoming more common for people to refuse to mask who they are by trying to suppress their behaviors. It's freeing to just be who you are and let other people worry about it. I suspect that was a major factor in what happened at BAFTA: This is a Tourette's activist about whom a film was made, and I'm guessing the producers chose to allow his outbursts to be heard because they want people to understand that for him this is normal and that they're the ones who need to learn to accept it. My criticism is that racist outbursts are different from mere vulgarities, and that neither the activist nor the producers nor BBC seem to have acknowledged the need to accommodate the needs of Black people as well as the disability community.

                      Pino CarafaR This user is from outside of this forum
                      Pino CarafaR This user is from outside of this forum
                      Pino Carafa
                      wrote last edited by
                      #57

                      @msbellows Thank you. I think a little understanding of people's struggles and challenges would not go amiss here. That goes for the person with Tourette who genuinely cannot stop their outbursts as well as for Black people who cannot be expected to just accept having slurs thrown around. I thought you presented a very thoughtful view of the whole situation. Cheers.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Roche LimitR Roche Limit

                        @IveyJanette
                        "Should someone with severe, stimulus-triggered coprolalia be placed in high-profile live public events without safeguards?"

                        Well, yes, given the nature of the film about Toutettes being referenced. Unless the author wants people with embarassing disabilities to be denied their autonomy. "Be placed" is an odd replacement for the more accurate "be allowed to attend".

                        Krzysztof SakrejdaW This user is from outside of this forum
                        Krzysztof SakrejdaW This user is from outside of this forum
                        Krzysztof Sakrejda
                        wrote last edited by
                        #58

                        @rochelimit @IveyJanette it wasn't live

                        Ivey Janette McClellandI 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Roche LimitR Roche Limit

                          @thiswomanswerk
                          Perhaps both statements are true?

                          I would also hope that hearing slur words from someone with a declared nuerological disorder would be less harmful than hearing slurs from swastika covered neo-nazi.

                          Context is important, rather than simply the sounds making up a word, surely?

                          Andrea is wearing a kufiT This user is from outside of this forum
                          Andrea is wearing a kufiT This user is from outside of this forum
                          Andrea is wearing a kufi
                          wrote last edited by
                          #59

                          @rochelimit Ah, so now context is important, when trying to downplay the harm of a racial slur?

                          If you are not Black you especially have no business suggesting someone should feel less hurt hearing it; even if you are, that's still not your place.

                          Surely, you can understand the harm caused by an older white man referring to multiple Black people as slurs, especially one laden with a violent historical context, regardless of intention.

                          Andrea is wearing a kufiT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Andrea is wearing a kufiT Andrea is wearing a kufi

                            @rochelimit Ah, so now context is important, when trying to downplay the harm of a racial slur?

                            If you are not Black you especially have no business suggesting someone should feel less hurt hearing it; even if you are, that's still not your place.

                            Surely, you can understand the harm caused by an older white man referring to multiple Black people as slurs, especially one laden with a violent historical context, regardless of intention.

                            Andrea is wearing a kufiT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Andrea is wearing a kufiT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Andrea is wearing a kufi
                            wrote last edited by
                            #60

                            @rochelimit Anyway I'm not trying to get in a back and forth. But I thought your comment was super condescending and pedantic, and totally lacking in any sort of empathy for Black people.

                            So, you sit with that and make it your own problem, please, instead of implying you know how we ought to react to slurs.

                            Roche LimitR 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Krzysztof SakrejdaW Krzysztof Sakrejda

                              @rochelimit @IveyJanette it wasn't live

                              Ivey Janette McClellandI This user is from outside of this forum
                              Ivey Janette McClellandI This user is from outside of this forum
                              Ivey Janette McClelland
                              wrote last edited by
                              #61

                              @wronglang @rochelimit But the BBC could have still bleeped it.

                              Krzysztof SakrejdaW 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Ivey Janette McClellandI Ivey Janette McClelland

                                @wronglang @rochelimit But the BBC could have still bleeped it.

                                Krzysztof SakrejdaW This user is from outside of this forum
                                Krzysztof SakrejdaW This user is from outside of this forum
                                Krzysztof Sakrejda
                                wrote last edited by
                                #62

                                @IveyJanette @rochelimit they made the choice not to bleep, that's for sure! I think it got them ahead of the Olympics in the news cycle and that's what they wanted

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Roche LimitR Roche Limit

                                  @thiswomanswerk
                                  Perhaps both statements are true?

                                  I would also hope that hearing slur words from someone with a declared nuerological disorder would be less harmful than hearing slurs from swastika covered neo-nazi.

                                  Context is important, rather than simply the sounds making up a word, surely?

                                  PeachMcDP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  PeachMcDP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  PeachMcD
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #63

                                  @rochelimit @thiswomanswerk

                                  "Apologies are extended 'if you are offended.'ย 

                                  If.ย As though the harm is hypothetical and the racial slur exists only in the realm of personal sensitivity.ย ย If.ย As though what happened depends on whether Black people choose to register it. That phrasing shifts the harm from something that happened to something people might feel. The problem subtly relocates from the racial act to Black folksโ€™ reaction."

                                  Andrea is wearing a kufiT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • M.S. Bellows, Jr.M M.S. Bellows, Jr.

                                    @venitamathias Not "chose." No. A part of the brain responsible for language and emotion chose without any volition on his part. He did not choose to utter a slur. He just didn't.

                                    Ericka SimoneE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ericka SimoneE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ericka Simone
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #64

                                    @msbellows @venitamathias it was a choice. As we discussed, even with coprolalia, there are multiple medications that he could have engaged to minimize or negate his issues. He clearly did not engage those options. He could have done multiple things to regulate his system. He did not.

                                    You seem hellbent on justifying the use of this word and itโ€™s beyond disturbing. Asking me โ€œwhat should he apologize forโ€ is insane. Stop. Your disability does not supersede my humanity.

                                    M.S. Bellows, Jr.M 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Ericka SimoneE Ericka Simone

                                      @msbellows @venitamathias it was a choice. As we discussed, even with coprolalia, there are multiple medications that he could have engaged to minimize or negate his issues. He clearly did not engage those options. He could have done multiple things to regulate his system. He did not.

                                      You seem hellbent on justifying the use of this word and itโ€™s beyond disturbing. Asking me โ€œwhat should he apologize forโ€ is insane. Stop. Your disability does not supersede my humanity.

                                      M.S. Bellows, Jr.M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M.S. Bellows, Jr.M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M.S. Bellows, Jr.
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #65

                                      @ErickaSimone @venitamathias Blocked for ableism. Be kinder.

                                      your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท  ๐Ÿฆ› ๐ŸฆฆB 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • M.S. Bellows, Jr.M M.S. Bellows, Jr.

                                        @ErickaSimone @venitamathias Blocked for ableism. Be kinder.

                                        your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท  ๐Ÿฆ› ๐ŸฆฆB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท  ๐Ÿฆ› ๐ŸฆฆB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท ๐Ÿฆ› ๐Ÿฆฆ
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #66

                                        WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO BE KIND TO RACISTS WHILE YOU ARE THERE JUST WATCHING US GETTING ABUSED, MAIMED & KILLED?

                                        DEAL WITH YOUR RACISTS EVERYWHERE.

                                        language is cultural. there is nothing biological about racism.

                                        itโ€™s because of white supremacists like you that Black people like me go undiagnosed all their lives.

                                        neurobehaviour sciences are extremely tainted by eugenics in USA/UK. stop using disability to normalize racist violence.

                                        @msbellows @ErickaSimone @venitamathias

                                        Ericka SimoneE 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท  ๐Ÿฆ› ๐ŸฆฆB your auntifa liza ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ท ๐Ÿฆ› ๐Ÿฆฆ

                                          WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO BE KIND TO RACISTS WHILE YOU ARE THERE JUST WATCHING US GETTING ABUSED, MAIMED & KILLED?

                                          DEAL WITH YOUR RACISTS EVERYWHERE.

                                          language is cultural. there is nothing biological about racism.

                                          itโ€™s because of white supremacists like you that Black people like me go undiagnosed all their lives.

                                          neurobehaviour sciences are extremely tainted by eugenics in USA/UK. stop using disability to normalize racist violence.

                                          @msbellows @ErickaSimone @venitamathias

                                          Ericka SimoneE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Ericka SimoneE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Ericka Simone
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #67

                                          @blogdiva @msbellows @venitamathias he knows exactly what heโ€™s doing.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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