When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
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@benroyce As an EU citizen, I don't want to end us. I fully support my own survival, and the survival of my fellow humans.
My point is, it's a fucking idiot move, to attack the biggest nuclear power, especially when they have threatened to fire their 5000 dirty bombs, if we do.
Play smart, not hard.
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl Peple like you think it won't go nuclear despite it absolutely being a possibility. War doesnt de-escalate unless cool heads prevail and you are pushing for escalation and annihilation.
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@benroyce @randahl I don't think you're able to see how the world works due to ypur limited capacity, but a friendly Egypt government was needed by Israel - USA proxy agent in the region, as we've repeteadly seen -, while Ukraine was used by the same powers to push Russia far from Europe, where they had been taking relevant trading presence.
It's not about supporting Russia or Ukraine, it's about severing ties completely with the world's biggest fascist power nowadays that, yes, is able to give coup d'etats wherever they want and destroy countries and people's lives at will: USA.
Egypt WAS on very good terms with Israel since Sadat right up to Arab Spring. Current Egyptian government that replaced the Muslim Brotherhood keeps rather cold relations with Israel but since both parties have the common enemy, ie Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas, they cooperate.
Yanukovych went so far up the Muscovite bum that his own party disowned him. And if you think all the people on the Maidan were on the CIA payroll then you're more divorced with the reality than the average vatnik.
The full scale war started because Zelensky in his naivety tried to compromise with the Muscovy and they took it as a sign of weakness.
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@benroyce As an EU citizen, I don't want to end us. I fully support my own survival, and the survival of my fellow humans.
My point is, it's a fucking idiot move, to attack the biggest nuclear power, especially when they have threatened to fire their 5000 dirty bombs, if we do.
Play smart, not hard.
no one is attacking russia. russia is attacking ukraine. "play smart" indeed
if the eu sent troops to relieve non front line activity that would allow ukraine to focus on repelling russian troops
if you find that provocative, recall russia already called in north korean troops
if russia goes "we'll nuke you" also recall russia has already threatened to nuke europe over every little fucking thing. they are full of shit
stop being a whiny weak coward and submitting to russia's lies
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl Four years? Try twelve! The war began in February 2014. Has everyone forgotten the first eight years of it?
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl thank heavens no country sent F16s or Chiftan tanks or Jaelin anti tank missiles - used by Ukraine right at the start of the invasion and stopped it in its tracks. And nobody sent air defence systems of course or artillery ammunition.
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
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Ukranians have been distancing themselves from Russians over centuries! On their own, yes.
Here you have a book by Andreas Kappeler to learn about their history:https://geographie-cites.cnrs.fr/en/russians-and-ukrainians-unequal-brothers-2/
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
-
When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl We basically let the school bully terrorize one kid and everyone is saying: just wait, he will run out of punches soon.
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@randahl Peple like you think it won't go nuclear despite it absolutely being a possibility. War doesnt de-escalate unless cool heads prevail and you are pushing for escalation and annihilation.
@ciaranmak That is precisely the problem: we think we can look into the mind of a dictator who couldn't care less about his own people, let alone others, and who considers himself untouchable in his luxurious bunkers. And that applies to all dictators in the world. It is much too easy to say that we are willing to risk even more lives.
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no one is attacking russia. russia is attacking ukraine. "play smart" indeed
if the eu sent troops to relieve non front line activity that would allow ukraine to focus on repelling russian troops
if you find that provocative, recall russia already called in north korean troops
if russia goes "we'll nuke you" also recall russia has already threatened to nuke europe over every little fucking thing. they are full of shit
stop being a whiny weak coward and submitting to russia's lies
-
When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl The USA is playing Devil's Advocate here.
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Denial of Ukrainian identity is straight up ethnofascism
So why are you on Mastodon you fuckwit racist? Shouldn't you be on Twitter with the rest of the Putin ass licking morons?
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@benroyce @hadon @randahl are you stupid or simply incapable of reading?
Of course there's Ukrainian identity. It's just not equally applied to all we have been knowing as Ukraine so far. While it's true in westernmost parts of the country, eastern parts seem to feel more Russian than Ukrainian. So the problem there is basically the drawn borders. Therefore, let the Eastern parts of the country join Russia and that's it.
There were intelligence agencies knowing that and they created that civil war anyway. So why would you support that? Again: are you stupid?
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@benroyce Look, Putin explicitly said, if we send troops, he drop nukes. This is what national leaders fear, or else Russia would have ceased yesterday.
Give me the keys to your car or I burn your house down
(/s)
Do you give me your car keys? Of course not
Just because Russia threatens nukes doesn't mean anything. They can threaten to use nukes over any provocation they want. It's just grade school bullying shit. No one takes them seriously and unless you stand uo to the bullying, you'll get MORE nuclear threats because you've shown they work on you. So giving into the threats *increases* the chances of being nuked
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@benroyce @hadon @randahl are you stupid or simply incapable of reading?
Of course there's Ukrainian identity. It's just not equally applied to all we have been knowing as Ukraine so far. While it's true in westernmost parts of the country, eastern parts seem to feel more Russian than Ukrainian. So the problem there is basically the drawn borders. Therefore, let the Eastern parts of the country join Russia and that's it.
There were intelligence agencies knowing that and they created that civil war anyway. So why would you support that? Again: are you stupid?
They decided to be Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
If there were any russophile Ukrainians, the years of war now has erased all of that from the mind of every Ukrainian. Mass murdering ethnofascist imperialism tends to do that, galaxy brain
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@randahl you know how we could have already ended this war? Not giving the 2014 coup d'etat, sponsored by the US and the EU. That would have created 0 wars. Now you want the European citizenship to support a war created by some criminals in our name by giving the power in Ukraine to their worst nationalistic fascists? No, I don't think so. Go fight yourself.
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@MisuseCase @randahl probably the smartest thing you could have said.
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When the war in Ukraine broke out, and Europe was hesitant in the first year, I thought alright, this is a surprise to everyone and of course we need time to prepare.
Now 4 years have passed, and we are 450 million EU and 69 million UK citizens still standing on the sidelines, telling 38 million Ukrainians they should fight 133 million Russians on their own.
We could end this war. Instead we keep pretending that it is fine to let Ukraine take all the punches.
I find that profoundly shameful.
@randahl It is indeed shameful. Also illogical. You #Europeans just stood up to the #USA for heaven's sake — over #Greenland, which is part of North America! — and made #Trump blink. If you can do that, you can stand up to #Russia over #Ukraine in your own back yard in #Europe, and make #Putin back down — or, if need be, take him down. Your combined economy is many times the size of his.
