I have lived in the US for 23 years.
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@cyberlyra oh my gosh, I think I’m a keener!! I’ve not had a word like this to describe my attitude towards learning for the sake of learning.
Thank you for introducing it to us
@cyberlyra@hachyderm.io I had the same thought. "OMG, I'm Canuck."
Turns out, I'm not an odd duck, I'm a loon. Headed to Timmy's for a double double.
️
🥌
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I have lived in the US for 23 years. This week I used the word "keener" at a meeting and someone interrupted me to ask what that was. I explained it's a Canadian word for someone who's just earnestly enthusiastic, an eager beaver, selflessly just excited about learning stuff and participating.
I alwasy thought it was just something we have a cooler word for that they don't -- like toque for beanie, or parkade for 'multi-story parking garage', or garburator for in-sink disposal unit (I mean, come on).
But this week I realized--there is no equivalent in the US, for keeners. It's like that thought-language concept about linguistic relativity (no word for orange= can't see orange) except the other way around (no word for it because it is impossible).
There is no word for keener in America because you can't be a keener in America.
Love learning? You have to display it so you get the top grades and go to Yale and make lots of money as a lawyer. Work hard? Not because you love it but because you don't know any other way to be. Expert about something? You gotta hustle and monetize with YouTube videos else you're not an expert and also you can't afford to send your kids to college. Love music, or dancing? you have to do it eight times a week for a trillion dollars or you can't do it at all.
Having elementary school aged children in the US has been eye-opening. It is Lord of the Flies in the classroom and on the playground. Children learn it's a hierarchy, and it's better to be on top, whatever that takes. Seven year olds on investment apps. Constant culture cramming. Playground games where they literally hit each other with sticks. Grabbing others' toys while some teacher you don't pay attention to says something useless about 'sharing' and you eventually turn that into 'an economy.'
(1/2)
@cyberlyra I think about the most important word in your definition of keener is the word "selflessly". It shows up in American news stories about disaster relief or about rescues from life-threatening situations. But it shows up because it's news. It isn't, I think, the norm.
It's like "humility" in that way. Lauded in some circles (especially some faith-centered circles), but not the national norm.
These are not widespread American traits. We would be a better people if they were. Better to be keeners in the Canadian sense than to constantly feel the need to revert to keening in the wailing and lamentation sense.
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra Thank you for writing that, and thank you for giving me a new vocabulary word, keener! I have always lived in the U.S. and I was a keen learner interested in my surroundings. There was no regional description for me while I was younger, and it was painful to know I would need to learn uninteresting lessons for being employed before I could earn enough to afford adulthood with money for a small house with unending property taxes and health insurance and living expenses. I was fifty-two when I found out what people like me are called, here; they said Asperger's Syndrome, on the Autism Spectrum. Happy ending, now I have retirement income sufficient to pay taxes and insurance and enough left over to eat and sleep and resume learning new things of all sorts, learning for fun
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@cyberlyra I live in a little pocket universe of America called Portland, Oregon. I think perhaps we're much more like Canada culturally…here people might look at you funny if you *don't* have a wide ranging set of eccentric hobbies and are expending too much effort on the hustle and grind.
@jaredwhite @cyberlyra isn't one of the creators of Portlandia a Canadian?
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra
I grew up in Washington and possibly heard the term keener, even if only from CBC. I think “eager beaver” is probably closest for the 80’s, but who knows what kids say now.
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra This post really spoke a lot to me and made me lament a lot of the things I feel have happened to me that have really hurt.
Also the part about feeling misunderstood. I find I have to be careful about that one and really question whether and who actually misunderstands anything and what it is they don't understand.
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra I hadn't heard of this word before but I am yoinking it as a self-identifier moving forward. Love it! Thank you for sharing your perspective and experiences around this.
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra Oh cool, I've learned something that helps explain my mental state of constant frustration
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Growing up, I was always called "a keener." For good or bad it was part of my identity. Maybe people here have persistently misunderstood me as ambitious when actually I just really, really, really like learning things. Maybe they don't understand why I'm not too strategic because I never thought it was winner takes all game. Maybe they'll read this and think it's dishonest and self-serving because that's all there can be.
But you can't afford to be a keener in this country because you will get belitted for it and passed by as a naif. If you genuininely just love working with people, or learning about stuff, or making things, because it brings you tremendous, expansive, loving pleasure, people figure there must be some reason why you're doing it, otherwise there's no reason to do it.
There is so much inequality, so much grasping, so much competition, so much of the time there is no place for keeners and the joyful, earnest, even clueless energy they bring. Small wonder even people I approach with earnesty think there must be something behind it, hopefully until they get to know me better.
I suspect there is a lot I have misunderstood about my students here too. I thought many of them loved learning and we had that in common. They do their assignments and speak politely to their profs and show up in office hours to ask questions. It looks like being a keener, on the surface, to another keener at least. Why wouldn't they want to geek out with me about things we care about?
But the majority of them know the game. They got to where they got to because they played it. They were the smartest and most culture crammed so they could be here and launch to a great career. They are adding items to their resumes that make them look shinier than the next person when it comes to the last job left on earth.
What a joyless form of learning and living that must be.
To be clear, that isn't everyone I've interacted with. But I am slowly re-appraising many of the interactions that I thought I understood (and others that I just never understood) from the vantage point that "keener" is not a type you can be here. And that means that for a vast majority of the people I interact with, I'm probably deeply, deeply misunderstood. 2/2
@cyberlyra Quite familiar. I feel fortunate enough to have been raised by grandparents (born around 1900!), who instilled in me the love of learning, for learning sake. So... I am the person with a music degree, who is a self-taught Linux sysadmin, and tech support for more "business-like" people.
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This feels so crazy because that’s not the elementary school world or high school world I grew up in. It’s completely alien.
It’s a creepy evolution
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @cyberlyra This. I was celebrated and called an “eager beaver” all throughout school in the 90s. Now I am adrift, reading posts about how I, as a keener American, cannot exist. But I do, and I must. It’s lonely.
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I have lived in the US for 23 years. This week I used the word "keener" at a meeting and someone interrupted me to ask what that was. I explained it's a Canadian word for someone who's just earnestly enthusiastic, an eager beaver, selflessly just excited about learning stuff and participating.
I alwasy thought it was just something we have a cooler word for that they don't -- like toque for beanie, or parkade for 'multi-story parking garage', or garburator for in-sink disposal unit (I mean, come on).
But this week I realized--there is no equivalent in the US, for keeners. It's like that thought-language concept about linguistic relativity (no word for orange= can't see orange) except the other way around (no word for it because it is impossible).
There is no word for keener in America because you can't be a keener in America.
Love learning? You have to display it so you get the top grades and go to Yale and make lots of money as a lawyer. Work hard? Not because you love it but because you don't know any other way to be. Expert about something? You gotta hustle and monetize with YouTube videos else you're not an expert and also you can't afford to send your kids to college. Love music, or dancing? you have to do it eight times a week for a trillion dollars or you can't do it at all.
Having elementary school aged children in the US has been eye-opening. It is Lord of the Flies in the classroom and on the playground. Children learn it's a hierarchy, and it's better to be on top, whatever that takes. Seven year olds on investment apps. Constant culture cramming. Playground games where they literally hit each other with sticks. Grabbing others' toys while some teacher you don't pay attention to says something useless about 'sharing' and you eventually turn that into 'an economy.'
(1/2)
@cyberlyra Hey! Excellent. I'm a happy keener. Very enthusiastic about learning and doing for its own sake. Luckily, I grew up in a family of keeners, where learning and happiness were twined goals. Not power, or status, or money. Education as a competitive sport was not a family value.
I'm not rich or powerful and have little status as I age toward the end, but my life is enriched and I am happy.
Thank you for the new-to-me word.
I usually use "nerd" but "keener" better describes my extroverted and sometimes over the top enthusiasm.
O Canada, Long May You Prize You Are Not (The) US. -
I have lived in the US for 23 years. This week I used the word "keener" at a meeting and someone interrupted me to ask what that was. I explained it's a Canadian word for someone who's just earnestly enthusiastic, an eager beaver, selflessly just excited about learning stuff and participating.
I alwasy thought it was just something we have a cooler word for that they don't -- like toque for beanie, or parkade for 'multi-story parking garage', or garburator for in-sink disposal unit (I mean, come on).
But this week I realized--there is no equivalent in the US, for keeners. It's like that thought-language concept about linguistic relativity (no word for orange= can't see orange) except the other way around (no word for it because it is impossible).
There is no word for keener in America because you can't be a keener in America.
Love learning? You have to display it so you get the top grades and go to Yale and make lots of money as a lawyer. Work hard? Not because you love it but because you don't know any other way to be. Expert about something? You gotta hustle and monetize with YouTube videos else you're not an expert and also you can't afford to send your kids to college. Love music, or dancing? you have to do it eight times a week for a trillion dollars or you can't do it at all.
Having elementary school aged children in the US has been eye-opening. It is Lord of the Flies in the classroom and on the playground. Children learn it's a hierarchy, and it's better to be on top, whatever that takes. Seven year olds on investment apps. Constant culture cramming. Playground games where they literally hit each other with sticks. Grabbing others' toys while some teacher you don't pay attention to says something useless about 'sharing' and you eventually turn that into 'an economy.'
(1/2)
I think the closest term would be go-getter.
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I have lived in the US for 23 years. This week I used the word "keener" at a meeting and someone interrupted me to ask what that was. I explained it's a Canadian word for someone who's just earnestly enthusiastic, an eager beaver, selflessly just excited about learning stuff and participating.
I alwasy thought it was just something we have a cooler word for that they don't -- like toque for beanie, or parkade for 'multi-story parking garage', or garburator for in-sink disposal unit (I mean, come on).
But this week I realized--there is no equivalent in the US, for keeners. It's like that thought-language concept about linguistic relativity (no word for orange= can't see orange) except the other way around (no word for it because it is impossible).
There is no word for keener in America because you can't be a keener in America.
Love learning? You have to display it so you get the top grades and go to Yale and make lots of money as a lawyer. Work hard? Not because you love it but because you don't know any other way to be. Expert about something? You gotta hustle and monetize with YouTube videos else you're not an expert and also you can't afford to send your kids to college. Love music, or dancing? you have to do it eight times a week for a trillion dollars or you can't do it at all.
Having elementary school aged children in the US has been eye-opening. It is Lord of the Flies in the classroom and on the playground. Children learn it's a hierarchy, and it's better to be on top, whatever that takes. Seven year olds on investment apps. Constant culture cramming. Playground games where they literally hit each other with sticks. Grabbing others' toys while some teacher you don't pay attention to says something useless about 'sharing' and you eventually turn that into 'an economy.'
(1/2)
@cyberlyra I hate the US as much as the next person, but its a bit ridiculous to say its utterly devoid of people who are selflessly excited because.... no keener.
Its been awhile since I've had to live in that shithole country but i still know a handful of folks there who are selflessly excited at least some of the time.
Getting back at the US by copying its nationalism and degradation of other cultures is not the burn you think it is.
