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  3. So I often come back to the question of defining what we mean by "intelligence."

So I often come back to the question of defining what we mean by "intelligence."

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  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

    So I often come back to the question of defining what we mean by "intelligence." It's pretty easy to get disgusted say it's not even worth trying to define because it is a word used in such inconsistent ways.

    Intelligence is a positive attribute that describes the decision making capacity and effectiveness.

    * Is a scientific calculator intelligent?
    * Is a billionaire intelligent?
    * Is the largest blue whale the most intelligent animal alive because it has the most brain mass?

    gclefG This user is from outside of this forum
    gclefG This user is from outside of this forum
    gclef
    wrote last edited by
    #30

    @futurebird

    Intelligence is asking questions.

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    • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

      So I often come back to the question of defining what we mean by "intelligence." It's pretty easy to get disgusted say it's not even worth trying to define because it is a word used in such inconsistent ways.

      Intelligence is a positive attribute that describes the decision making capacity and effectiveness.

      * Is a scientific calculator intelligent?
      * Is a billionaire intelligent?
      * Is the largest blue whale the most intelligent animal alive because it has the most brain mass?

      CassandrichD This user is from outside of this forum
      CassandrichD This user is from outside of this forum
      Cassandrich
      wrote last edited by
      #31

      @futurebird 1. No.
      2. No.
      3. Intelligence isn't an axis of measurement, it's a qualitative property. So no.

      CassandrichD 1 Reply Last reply
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      • CassandrichD Cassandrich

        @futurebird 1. No.
        2. No.
        3. Intelligence isn't an axis of measurement, it's a qualitative property. So no.

        CassandrichD This user is from outside of this forum
        CassandrichD This user is from outside of this forum
        Cassandrich
        wrote last edited by
        #32

        @futurebird Re: 1 & 2, a big part of intelligence is the ability to use reasoning processes to manage consequences. Neither a calculator nor a billionaire experiences consequences so neither can have intelligence.

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        • Dawn AhukannaD Dawn Ahukanna

          @futurebird
          “intelligent” is an adjective categorizing/qualifying a noun & has meaning in an applied context: having or showing high level of intelligence.
          “Intelligence” is a noun, describing a specific ability to acquire knowledge & skills.
          So “intelligent intelligence” implies there is also “unintelligent intelligence” therefore the noun is spectral in nature like light- 😀😆😉😬.

          In general conversation it seems “Intelligence” is being conflated with “genius” I.e. exceptional intelligence.

          Dawn AhukannaD This user is from outside of this forum
          Dawn AhukannaD This user is from outside of this forum
          Dawn Ahukanna
          wrote last edited by
          #33

          @futurebird case in point- “unintelligent intelligence” == fiction

          - https://mstdn.social/@david_colquhoun/116064390958883997

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          • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

            That one ant going the "wrong way" isn't less intelligent than the rest. She's an essential part of the system.

            Because sometimes that ant finds a shortcut. If she finds a shortcut her pheromone path, the passive evidence of her motion, the freshness of the leaf bit she delivers will attract more ants to her path. Quickly, without discussion or resentment, (cough cough) all of the ants switch to the new shorter path.

            The 'wrong way ants' prevent the ants from being trapped in bad attractors.

            Flaming CheetoP This user is from outside of this forum
            Flaming CheetoP This user is from outside of this forum
            Flaming Cheeto
            wrote last edited by
            #34

            @futurebird https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/536961-the-reasonable-man-adapts-himself-to-the-world-the-unreasonable

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            • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

              That one ant going the "wrong way" isn't less intelligent than the rest. She's an essential part of the system.

              Because sometimes that ant finds a shortcut. If she finds a shortcut her pheromone path, the passive evidence of her motion, the freshness of the leaf bit she delivers will attract more ants to her path. Quickly, without discussion or resentment, (cough cough) all of the ants switch to the new shorter path.

              The 'wrong way ants' prevent the ants from being trapped in bad attractors.

              Jonathan HartleyT This user is from outside of this forum
              Jonathan HartleyT This user is from outside of this forum
              Jonathan Hartley
              wrote last edited by
              #35

              @futurebird I have always assumed this must be my role in society. 😁

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              • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                So I often come back to the question of defining what we mean by "intelligence." It's pretty easy to get disgusted say it's not even worth trying to define because it is a word used in such inconsistent ways.

                Intelligence is a positive attribute that describes the decision making capacity and effectiveness.

                * Is a scientific calculator intelligent?
                * Is a billionaire intelligent?
                * Is the largest blue whale the most intelligent animal alive because it has the most brain mass?

                datenwolfD This user is from outside of this forum
                datenwolfD This user is from outside of this forum
                datenwolf
                wrote last edited by
                #36

                @futurebird

                For a very long time ( > 15 years) I'm holding the definition of intelligent being

                The capability for directed & deliberated action toward the goal of overcoming hitherto unknown and untrained for situations/problems with near-optimal effort.

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                • BritstralianN Britstralian

                  @futurebird For me, the line is between clever - someone who knows a lot of things, whether through exceptional memory or a great deal of study - and intelligent - someone who can understand new problems and solve them. Clever is fine for some tasks and hopeless for others. Intelligence is much more flexible - and can seek out the relevant knowledge they don't have.

                  As for the technology equivalent, LLMs are a version of clever, generally minus the awareness of whether they are right or wrong!

                  KhleedrilK This user is from outside of this forum
                  KhleedrilK This user is from outside of this forum
                  Khleedril
                  wrote last edited by
                  #37

                  @Nigel_Lake @futurebird I think you got them the wrong way around. Intelligent means you know lots of stuff (intelligence!), clever means you can work things out.

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                  • myrmepropagandistF myrmepropagandist

                    @mahryekuh

                    I think that's part of it. Although what keeps me up at night is thinking about the ease with which ants will abandon a bad but popular path for a shorter more effective one.

                    You will never have an ant who is saying "but this is the way my older sister went, you insult her memory by not using her path, she suffered so much" or "that ant who found the new shorter path thinks she's better than me, lets get rid of her and the path this is so embarrassing."

                    I hope.

                    Landa :graz:L This user is from outside of this forum
                    Landa :graz:L This user is from outside of this forum
                    Landa :graz:
                    wrote last edited by
                    #38

                    @futurebird I still have hope that we can learn something from our ant neighbors.
                    @mahryekuh

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                    • llewellyL llewelly

                      @futurebird @mahryekuh avoiding bad attractors like cars, amazon (the online purchasing scam), cryptocurrency, and covid-19 has made me terribly unpopular. More importantly, it has cost me jobs, which has led to homelessness. And don't even get me started on how medical insurers and education systems pummel people who avoid bad attractors like cars with hatred and abuse. Nothing is more unamerican than avoiding bad attractors.

                      🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦
                      wrote last edited by
                      #39

                      @llewelly @futurebird @mahryekuh I'm curious why you think online purchasing is a scam?

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