I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.

Opticacia

@danirabbit
I don't actually hate this but it's just reinventing the idea of vegetarianism.

& maybe that does need some rejuvinating & maybe that'll do some good in the world, still it's really not veganism.

I don't think it's cool to benefit from the moral associations of veganism without the hard work (being an animal use abolitionist).

I guess vegetarianism is kinda lame nowadays (now we say plant-based or plant forward or 'vegan'), & part of that is because veganism makes it look obsolete, but you can't just take the name without doing the work.

Danielle Foré

@Opticacia I don’t know if you know this but bacon is not a vegetable

Jonathan Frederickson

@danirabbit And you might just find that it was worth it for more reasons than you first thought.

I've become a regular at one of my local coffee shops, and at this point I've gotten to know the owner, employees, and some of the other regulars well enough that I go there as much for the community as the coffee at this point!

Kim Possible :kimoji_fire:

@danirabbit once I learned this, it became much less pressure. Just add a little exercise. Read one chapter of a book. Eat less meat.

Danielle Foré

@jfred yeah I know most of the names of the people at my local coffee shop now and when they’re not busy we chat and catch up. And I know they care about paying a livable wage and ethically sourcing their coffee too! I miss PSLs, but I’ve gained much more than I’ve lost

datarama

@beecycling @danirabbit Isn't this pretty much exactly the definition of vegetarianism?

(specifically, "ovo-lacto" vegetarianism - but that's what I think most people mean when they say "vegetarian".)

That’s a moray

@beecycling @danirabbit TBF the vegan versions of eggs and cheese and yogurt usually have almost zero protein, which we need for loads of reasons, so the real thing will keep you healthier.

datarama

@SordidAmok @danirabbit I'm sort of "morally lucky", I guess: I've been vegetarian for 33 years ... and I actually never liked meat. When I was a kid, I *hated* having to eat meat - in part because of not liking the thought of what it was, but also simply because I found the taste and (especially) the texture revolting.

So when I discovered that there was a magic word you could call yourself and then the grown-ups would stop trying to make you eat meat, I was *so* relieved!

(I generally don't use meat substitute products - I'm not opposed to them at all; if people can go vegetarian or vegan by replacing actual meat with that, fine by me! But some of the current ones are so convincing that I get the same "yuck!" factor if I try to eat them.)

lxskllr

@danirabbit

You see it a lot with everything. The $solution isn't perfect so it isn't worth doing at all. I'm thinking specifically of renewable resources here. "Solar doesn't cover 100% of our energy needs, so we'll just keep burning gas, and throwing some more coal on the pile".

A tiny bit better is still better, and it equals a lot when 350 million people make trivial changes. At that scale, it's no longer trivial, and can be further improved over time.

Dan Morris

@danirabbit my sister was a "bacon vegetarian" for a long time. Now.... she's back to meat and my wife has gone full-on vegan.

but, eating "less" meat is still an improvement. I almost never buy red meat anymore, after spending the vast amount of my life eating beef and pork as a requirement for meals.

Dan Morris

@danirabbit this is exactly how to do it. Another thing: Cash.

It seems crazy, but the reality is that massive credit card companies and banks keep your money outside of your city/town and invest it there.

I just paid $20 for lunch at my local cafe. I know the guys who work there are getting paid off the books, so they're taking that same cash home and stopping at the bodega for food, and paying in cash, giving their kids allowance in that cash, shopping at the chinatown hardware stores in cash, etc....

the money gets multiplied and stays out of the hands of big corp. And the reaility is that, no matter how liberal, *ALL* big corporations are bad. ALL of them have a negative effect on your home town. ALL of them.

Small business + Cash whenever possible.

Tattie

@danirabbit I eat meat less frequently than I used to, in smaller portions, and I generally buy it from the farmers' market when I do. I'm not pretending I'm an ethical superstar, but I'm doing what I feel is reasonable without denying myself something I enjoy. (And I actually savour it more for being a smaller part of my diet.)

[MARX_IN_SPACE]

@danirabbit 100%. I’ve been a committed vegetarian for a long time but when I go home and visit London I always get a Fish and Chips from my favourite place. I don’t feel bad about it because I’ve already put the hours in. I look forward to it.

And you know what? My non-veggie friends see that and tell me if they can “lapse” now and again they’ll make the switch too. Changing habits is a process, far easier to do at your own pace.

avatastic :enby_rebel:

@danirabbit I'm Vegan+

Vegan + Bacon.

Carolyn

@danirabbit Elsewhere, a guy was arguing the difference between plant-based vs vegetarian/vegan. You cannot be the latter unless you’re fighting for animal rights!

People love to put their own labels on others. Having a couple of vegetarian meals a week can make an impact on health and environment.

Edge 🇨🇦🇲🇽🇺🇦🏳️‍🌈

@danirabbit

These are all really good ideas, for making small, productive changes. Thanks for pointing them out.

SeanBurlington 🌈 🕊️

@danirabbit also it's amazing how people who have no ethical stance like to pick holes in other people's ethical stances.

I think it's defensive because if someone else is being moral maybe you should too - but if you can find fault you're off the hook

This results in hostility to vegan + bacon

Because it's really hard to come up with a sensible argument against being just a bit moral - it's not even that hard to do.

Drew Towler 🇵🇭

@danirabbit I think I could do "whatever you eat now plus more bacon".

Opticacia

@danirabbit
Neither are eggs and milk.

Of course, you could stick to strict definitions of vegetarianism or plant-based diets, I don't really see the imperative.

I get this is a strange take, but from my perspective vegetarianism isn't so different from 'flexitarianism', in that they both lean on plants heavily but arbitraily include some animal products according to personal preference.

But all that aside, veganism isn't (just) a diet and there's no half-measures, you either do it or you don't.

Julia

@danirabbit Yeah, people are so black-and-white in their thinking. Including me often, although I fight against it.