If you’re upset and trying to guilt people of color for rightfully pointing out that nobody gave a shit until it happened to a white lady, maybe sit down and shut the fuck up
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@danirabbit While I agree with this, I also have seen this as a trap the left almost always falls into that weakens our social movements. The right focuses on their agenda getting pushed through and doesn’t tear theirselves apart infighting over motivations. I think this kind of reflection is important for history books so people can evolve, but in the moment it tends to push away people who were starting to come to your thinking. The goal of stopping fascist law enforcement needs the focus.
@Randomly_Generated_Name if white people hate accountability so much that it stands in their way of their solidarity, they weren’t going to be good allies anyways. I’m okay with alienating people who only care about themselves and find the idea of introspection to be a deal breaker
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@danirabbit While I agree with this, I also have seen this as a trap the left almost always falls into that weakens our social movements. The right focuses on their agenda getting pushed through and doesn’t tear theirselves apart infighting over motivations. I think this kind of reflection is important for history books so people can evolve, but in the moment it tends to push away people who were starting to come to your thinking. The goal of stopping fascist law enforcement needs the focus.
@Randomly_Generated_Name for what it's worth, SayHerName (hashtag) is over 10 years old now, starting with Sandra Bland and with way too many dead people in between her and Renee Good since then. People have been shouting from the rooftops and have been turned away as too vocal, too vigilant all of this time until this has escalated into what it is today. Of course there is some pushback. If you care, if you really care, you cannot be oversensitive to critisism.
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@Randomly_Generated_Name if white people hate accountability so much that it stands in their way of their solidarity, they weren’t going to be good allies anyways. I’m okay with alienating people who only care about themselves and find the idea of introspection to be a deal breaker
@danirabbit I feel the right gets further in pushing their agenda because they don’t push out supporters on these purity tests so much. I think the goal of stopping people dying in the moment needs to supersede debate over motivations if we want to defeat this type of evil. Again, I agree with your assessment. I am just sick of losing because we can’t stop pushing support away because it’s not the right support. I think the left needs to focus more on the end result in dire times like these.
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@Randomly_Generated_Name for what it's worth, SayHerName (hashtag) is over 10 years old now, starting with Sandra Bland and with way too many dead people in between her and Renee Good since then. People have been shouting from the rooftops and have been turned away as too vocal, too vigilant all of this time until this has escalated into what it is today. Of course there is some pushback. If you care, if you really care, you cannot be oversensitive to critisism.
@chillicampari @danirabbit I guess I just feel results matter more than why those results came to being in desperate times like these. I think it’s why the right got so much power and now gets to enact such sweeping changes. I just want the left to have the same ability to make change to impact lives more than I care if some people get there for the wrong reasons.
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@danirabbit I feel the right gets further in pushing their agenda because they don’t push out supporters on these purity tests so much. I think the goal of stopping people dying in the moment needs to supersede debate over motivations if we want to defeat this type of evil. Again, I agree with your assessment. I am just sick of losing because we can’t stop pushing support away because it’s not the right support. I think the left needs to focus more on the end result in dire times like these.
@Randomly_Generated_Name it’s not a “purity test”. Be so fucking for real. The bar is on the god damn floor and any time we ask for anything it’s like “oh my god I can’t believe you expect me to consider that I need to do some learning and growing and even *gasp* changing”. Jesus Christ. There’s no debate here, it’s white people stop being so fucking fragile all the time and take your fucking lumps for once. Tired of kissing ass to try to get you to show up. Get outta here tone policing shit
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@Randomly_Generated_Name it’s not a “purity test”. Be so fucking for real. The bar is on the god damn floor and any time we ask for anything it’s like “oh my god I can’t believe you expect me to consider that I need to do some learning and growing and even *gasp* changing”. Jesus Christ. There’s no debate here, it’s white people stop being so fucking fragile all the time and take your fucking lumps for once. Tired of kissing ass to try to get you to show up. Get outta here tone policing shit
@danirabbit @Randomly_Generated_Name
Our agenda needs to be that NO ONE in the US is subject to this kind of authoritarian violence and that means we all need to acknowledge that we’ve been ok with Black people being subject to it for too long.
Me too, I have also been too ok with it. I also reflexively resisted when Black people said this is the same as what they’ve been subjected to. We all have to get through that reflex. We have to. And the people helping us through are helping, not hurting.
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@chillicampari @danirabbit I guess I just feel results matter more than why those results came to being in desperate times like these. I think it’s why the right got so much power and now gets to enact such sweeping changes. I just want the left to have the same ability to make change to impact lives more than I care if some people get there for the wrong reasons.
@Randomly_Generated_Name sure, there is infighting on the left but anyone who bolts at the first sign of discomfort is actually getting in the way (paraphrasing Dani upthread).
Shit is fucked. But if you want to make change you need to be able to work alongside someone who will call you out as needed, does not always keep you comfortable and may not be your friend. Getting results is not an exercise in comfort.
@danirabbit -
@Randomly_Generated_Name sure, there is infighting on the left but anyone who bolts at the first sign of discomfort is actually getting in the way (paraphrasing Dani upthread).
Shit is fucked. But if you want to make change you need to be able to work alongside someone who will call you out as needed, does not always keep you comfortable and may not be your friend. Getting results is not an exercise in comfort.
@danirabbit@chillicampari @danirabbit I hope you are right. I’ve just watched the right win and win my entire life. And I’ve watched every leftist movement fizzle. Over time it’s seemed to me when I’ve discussed these things that we on the left get so bogged down in minutia of the ideology we lose momentum. Maybe I’m just old now and I’m ready for a goddamn win. Obviously I’m in the minority with my opinion here, but figured it didn’t hurt to point out what I saw was problematic from my team.
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@danirabbit @Randomly_Generated_Name
Our agenda needs to be that NO ONE in the US is subject to this kind of authoritarian violence and that means we all need to acknowledge that we’ve been ok with Black people being subject to it for too long.
Me too, I have also been too ok with it. I also reflexively resisted when Black people said this is the same as what they’ve been subjected to. We all have to get through that reflex. We have to. And the people helping us through are helping, not hurting.
@minmi @danirabbit @Randomly_Generated_Name "progressive" white people when they get told they have to acknowledge they are racist in order to stop being racist: ...
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@minmi @danirabbit @Randomly_Generated_Name "progressive" white people when they get told they have to acknowledge they are racist in order to stop being racist: ...
@karolherbst @danirabbit @Randomly_Generated_Name
I mean, it’s not easy and usually not graceful to grow and change. I’ve certainly thrown my own pretty unflattering tantrums and will certainly continue to screw up. So I’m not here to bash anyone who’s fighting that tension.
But for sure the only way out is through, and the people reminding us of that are doing the right thing.
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@chillicampari @danirabbit I hope you are right. I’ve just watched the right win and win my entire life. And I’ve watched every leftist movement fizzle. Over time it’s seemed to me when I’ve discussed these things that we on the left get so bogged down in minutia of the ideology we lose momentum. Maybe I’m just old now and I’m ready for a goddamn win. Obviously I’m in the minority with my opinion here, but figured it didn’t hurt to point out what I saw was problematic from my team.
@Randomly_Generated_Name that brings the question of who is your team?
I know (from real life, from many years ago) that @danirabbit is willing to drop everything and help out when push comes to shove, even when dealing with something out of her comfort zone. She didn't judge, she asked questions and is now an expert that I trust to do the right thing.
Can you do the same? Can you set aside your discomfort and when you see something that may or may not apply to you and just keep scrolling?
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@Randomly_Generated_Name it’s not a “purity test”. Be so fucking for real. The bar is on the god damn floor and any time we ask for anything it’s like “oh my god I can’t believe you expect me to consider that I need to do some learning and growing and even *gasp* changing”. Jesus Christ. There’s no debate here, it’s white people stop being so fucking fragile all the time and take your fucking lumps for once. Tired of kissing ass to try to get you to show up. Get outta here tone policing shit
@danirabbit was that necessary? I am on your side on this overall and simply gave an opposing view point to consider and you tell me to fuck off. This type of shit pushes people away from your view point at the basic psychological level. Maybe reflect on how you treat people in polite discussions if you actually want to change minds to your view point. Why post on social media at all if your goal is to squash any opinion that doesn’t perfectly align with your viewpoint.
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@Randomly_Generated_Name that brings the question of who is your team?
I know (from real life, from many years ago) that @danirabbit is willing to drop everything and help out when push comes to shove, even when dealing with something out of her comfort zone. She didn't judge, she asked questions and is now an expert that I trust to do the right thing.
Can you do the same? Can you set aside your discomfort and when you see something that may or may not apply to you and just keep scrolling?
@Randomly_Generated_Name people need to vent, especially the people who have been trying for many years to talk about what is happening. What has been happening to lead to this. If your idea of having a win means that no one can be treated with anything but kid gloves to spare hurt feelings and avoid infighting, I don't know what to say. @danirabbit
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@Randomly_Generated_Name it’s not a “purity test”. Be so fucking for real. The bar is on the god damn floor and any time we ask for anything it’s like “oh my god I can’t believe you expect me to consider that I need to do some learning and growing and even *gasp* changing”. Jesus Christ. There’s no debate here, it’s white people stop being so fucking fragile all the time and take your fucking lumps for once. Tired of kissing ass to try to get you to show up. Get outta here tone policing shit
@danirabbit You are right and have my full support. I fully agree and it’s hard to deal with the anger I feel about the self-righteous „yes, but“ters and their glorious justification for judging others while doing nothing. On your side. Solidarity. @Randomly_Generated_Name
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@Randomly_Generated_Name that brings the question of who is your team?
I know (from real life, from many years ago) that @danirabbit is willing to drop everything and help out when push comes to shove, even when dealing with something out of her comfort zone. She didn't judge, she asked questions and is now an expert that I trust to do the right thing.
Can you do the same? Can you set aside your discomfort and when you see something that may or may not apply to you and just keep scrolling?
@chillicampari @danirabbit It’s not my discomfort. I was coming from a point of view of people who aren’t already leftist getting their minds changed. If you get aggressively critical of people coming to your view point from another side because they don’t fully align with you, you won’t get a big enough tent to make the changes we need. That was my only point. I am speaking as a person who is around a lot of right wing people in a rural area because of where I was born.
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If you’re upset and trying to guilt people of color for rightfully pointing out that nobody gave a shit until it happened to a white lady, maybe sit down and shut the fuck up
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