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  3. I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

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  • G. WozniakG This user is from outside of this forum
    G. WozniakG This user is from outside of this forum
    G. Wozniak
    wrote last edited by
    #6

    @dan @ricci This sounds like the genesis of Graeber's bullshit jobs theory.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Dr. FerrousD This user is from outside of this forum
      Dr. FerrousD This user is from outside of this forum
      Dr. Ferrous
      wrote last edited by
      #7

      @ricci @kevinbowrin oh wow, I would LOVE a library service like that. I have great colleagues in the library, but we don’t have near enough people to do that level of service.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

        I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

        They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

        Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

        Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

        Eli Roberson (he/him)T This user is from outside of this forum
        Eli Roberson (he/him)T This user is from outside of this forum
        Eli Roberson (he/him)
        wrote last edited by
        #8

        @ricci so what you're saying is that university administrators will never support researchers. πŸ˜‚

        I 100% agree with you on all points.

        At least in the US at R1s, it's entirely a corporate culture where more is always possible and the worst people float to the top because of how they're willing to behave to get there. IME anyway.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

          I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

          They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

          Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

          Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

          TerryBT This user is from outside of this forum
          TerryBT This user is from outside of this forum
          TerryB
          wrote last edited by
          #9

          @ricci A lot of mangers struggle to understand that if you are actively <strong>managing</strong> you are probably not <em>managing</em>. A lot of managers' managers struggle to understand that if their staff aren't running around doing <strong>managing</strong> it may well be because they <em>are managing</em> well.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

            I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

            They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

            Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

            Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

            siderealS This user is from outside of this forum
            siderealS This user is from outside of this forum
            sidereal
            wrote last edited by
            #10

            @ricci Way too many managers think their job is to tell people what to do.

            When actually the job of a manager is to make sure that people have what they need to do their jobs.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

              I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

              They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

              Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

              Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

              Ethan BlantonE This user is from outside of this forum
              Ethan BlantonE This user is from outside of this forum
              Ethan Blanton
              wrote last edited by
              #11

              @ricci It turns out that somehow (b) is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                Velocipedestrienne πŸ‡ΏπŸ‡¦H This user is from outside of this forum
                Velocipedestrienne πŸ‡ΏπŸ‡¦H This user is from outside of this forum
                Velocipedestrienne πŸ‡ΏπŸ‡¦
                wrote last edited by
                #12

                @ricci As a former grad student under end of career tenured professors phoning it in, I do not disagree with your thesis statement, but I do disagree with your justification. The one guy had been so apathetic for so long, his transportation policy class didn't mention the last two FIVE-YEAR transportation acts. Any interaction with him was the same speech trying to put me off doing a PhD, probably because he didn't want to supervise it.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                  I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                  They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                  Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                  Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                  Quincy ⁂Q This user is from outside of this forum
                  Quincy ⁂Q This user is from outside of this forum
                  Quincy ⁂
                  wrote last edited by
                  #13

                  @ricci Well put; couldn't agree more!

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                    I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                    They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                    Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                    Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                    George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                    George BG This user is from outside of this forum
                    George B
                    wrote last edited by
                    #14

                    @ricci

                    Finding the obstacles and clearing them so they can do the thing they are extremely motivated to do should be the obvious course of action

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Ethan BlantonE This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ethan BlantonE This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ethan Blanton
                      wrote last edited by
                      #15

                      @kevinbowrin This sounds amazing.
                      @ricci

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                        I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                        They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                        Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                        Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                        David Mitchell :CApride:D This user is from outside of this forum
                        David Mitchell :CApride:D This user is from outside of this forum
                        David Mitchell :CApride:
                        wrote last edited by
                        #16

                        @ricci

                        This applies to so many people in roles ranging far outside of universities. Most people actually want to do a good job and take pride in their work, particularly if it is a career choice. The best thing management can do is get out of the way with the ridiculous demotifying roadblocks. Simply support them adequately and then get out of the way.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Lee from ColoradoC This user is from outside of this forum
                          Lee from ColoradoC This user is from outside of this forum
                          Lee from Colorado
                          wrote last edited by
                          #17

                          @kevinbowrin
                          I would have loved such a service in my teaching days...

                          @ricci

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Naga (he/him)N This user is from outside of this forum
                            Naga (he/him)N This user is from outside of this forum
                            Naga (he/him)
                            wrote last edited by
                            #18

                            @kevinbowrin @ricci Whereas when I was faculty at an R1, I was doing all the budget paperwork and calculations and making and collating all the photocopied sets for my research grant applications... There was nobody whose job included helping with any of that.

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                            0
                            • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                              I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                              They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                              Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                              Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                              Helen LHR This user is from outside of this forum
                              Helen LHR This user is from outside of this forum
                              Helen LH
                              wrote last edited by
                              #19

                              @ricci If only! At the moment UK universities seem obsessed with profit above all else. They actively making courses worse so they can cut them. They are removing all optionality for interesting modules. Making staff juggle modules from multiple courses and still expect world leading research on approximately the half a day a week that we are not teaching or burdened with unnecessary bureaucracy.

                              Jules she/herA 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                                Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                                Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.
                                wrote last edited by
                                #20

                                @dan @ricci as someone stuck in adjunct hell, I dream of a job with continuity, a full-time salary, and benefits. So, yeah, we exist.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                                  I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                                  They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                                  Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                                  Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                                  Steve FreemanS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Steve FreemanS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Steve Freeman
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #21

                                  @ricci many, many years ago, the deputy director of my lab viewed the researchers as weird animals in a zoo. His job was to stop us running amok. He almost broke the lab.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Rob RicciR Rob Ricci

                                    I need university administrators (and probably some other people too, but definitely university administrators) to understand something: you cannot motivate your faculty to do more research or better teaching.

                                    They are already maximally motivated people. They did not get the job by being unmotivated. A good chunk of them have more motivation than is healthy for them.

                                    Any action you take to "motivate" them is going to be demotivational. Any of them. Yes, even that one that you just thought of. Yes, even the one you heard about from one of your peers at a different institution that you're jealous of.

                                    Lean in close, here's the secret: all you have to do is (a) support them in doing their jobs, and (b) not fuck things up.

                                    John Faithfull 🌍πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ§‘βœŠπŸ»βœŠπŸΏF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    John Faithfull 🌍πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ§‘βœŠπŸ»βœŠπŸΏF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    John Faithfull 🌍πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ§‘βœŠπŸ»βœŠπŸΏ
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #22

                                    @ricci πŸ’― Not heard it expressed like this before βœŠπŸ™

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Helen LHR Helen LH

                                      @ricci If only! At the moment UK universities seem obsessed with profit above all else. They actively making courses worse so they can cut them. They are removing all optionality for interesting modules. Making staff juggle modules from multiple courses and still expect world leading research on approximately the half a day a week that we are not teaching or burdened with unnecessary bureaucracy.

                                      Jules she/herA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Jules she/herA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Jules she/her
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #23

                                      @Research_FTW @ricci yes I think the problem here is university staff are generally maximally motivated to find out interesting stuff and then share it, whereas university administration wants them to be maximally motivated to make the university money

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