Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
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@rysiek Spicy take: "Web developers" should not be a thing. You don't have any reason to "develop" for the web. The whole point was to factor things so that the browser and the server software were the only things that needed "development" and this development is reused by everyone. The actual documents you're publishing need writing/markup, not "development".
@dalias @rysiek
Well, there are legitimate reasons to develop applications running in the browser engine (portability as the main one).
The problem is article sites pushing advertisement bullshit into everything, and you can‘t really do that if the user just enables Reader Mode. So, make your document tree useless for everything but proprietary CSS and JS.
A web dev should just be someone developing applications for the browser engines, like iOS devs for iPhone apps. -
@dalias @rysiek
Well, there are legitimate reasons to develop applications running in the browser engine (portability as the main one).
The problem is article sites pushing advertisement bullshit into everything, and you can‘t really do that if the user just enables Reader Mode. So, make your document tree useless for everything but proprietary CSS and JS.
A web dev should just be someone developing applications for the browser engines, like iOS devs for iPhone apps. -
@rysiek pages are now florps. progress bar goes sideways.
@th I'd say most of web development has been going sideways for a decade or so
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek Honestly I just don’t like scrollbars and turn them off, but, like, I’m the user, I should be able to turn them off. Or on. Webdev (and Desktop Dev, because we’ve somehow regressed to be less capable than Windows 3.1) need to be hit with the User Sovereignty Stick.
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@dalias @rysiek
Well, there are legitimate reasons to develop applications running in the browser engine (portability as the main one).
The problem is article sites pushing advertisement bullshit into everything, and you can‘t really do that if the user just enables Reader Mode. So, make your document tree useless for everything but proprietary CSS and JS.
A web dev should just be someone developing applications for the browser engines, like iOS devs for iPhone apps. -
@th I'd say most of web development has been going sideways for a decade or so
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@rysiek Honestly I just don’t like scrollbars and turn them off, but, like, I’m the user, I should be able to turn them off. Or on. Webdev (and Desktop Dev, because we’ve somehow regressed to be less capable than Windows 3.1) need to be hit with the User Sovereignty Stick.
@lightspill @rysiek We should also be able to keep them always visible, and control the thickness.
I totally get why people don't like the look of the scrollbars of the 90s, but that should be an option for those who need that (either due to vision issues, trouble using the newer style, or just personal preference)
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek do you believe that I considered adding scrollbars to a slides presentation interface I'm developing? I just didn't do that because it would look too distracting (well, at least depending on the implementation, I can still look into that)
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek That's the secret, Cap. I only implement infinite scrolling.
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek well I still see double scroll at times still, so that can give some balance
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@libewa @rysiek Prior to React, even stuff like Facebook followed the document model, where the document is semantic and the AJAX stuff just updates the semantic document.
React is what ruined the web with the despicable ideological position that the primacy of the document model is a bad thing and that you're supposed to write everything as an "application" that "renders" to the DOM.
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek
GUI developers of Android, Windows since 7 (esp 10 & 11), & especially browsers (Mozilla has lost plot) are total abusive morons.
Using Mate with customised theme based on Server 2003, customised Thunderbird (fairly sane) and customised Firefox (has scrollbars but barely sane).
Also the active Tab should connect to active document. Are these folk deliberately trying to confuse & reduce productivity?
Text too grey & background too grey. No wonder people going back to DOS / Blackboard. -
@libewa @rysiek Prior to React, even stuff like Facebook followed the document model, where the document is semantic and the AJAX stuff just updates the semantic document.
React is what ruined the web with the despicable ideological position that the primacy of the document model is a bad thing and that you're supposed to write everything as an "application" that "renders" to the DOM.
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@lightspill @rysiek We should also be able to keep them always visible, and control the thickness.
I totally get why people don't like the look of the scrollbars of the 90s, but that should be an option for those who need that (either due to vision issues, trouble using the newer style, or just personal preference)
@korgie @lightspill @rysiek fuckin love the scrollbars of the 90s
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Web developers: we are going to go out of our way to hide the scrollbars!
Users: but that makes it difficult to know how much of the text is left to read!
Web developers: don't worry, we'll add a non-standard UI element that signals this in some non-obvious, weird way!
@rysiek we'll get to it as soon as we re-implement all basic form functionality in JavaScript.
