Most definitely.
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@tek @benroyce @BrianJopek Who ever said that? Name three. This sounds like a straw man argument to me.
Speaking for myself, most people who hate both the GOP Candidate and the DNC Candidate either vote 3rd party or don't vote at all.
@grumble209
Any time someone starts off their discussions about the evils of a specific person with "But what about X"... They are basically admitting it. "Trump is in the Epstein files, but what about Bill Clinton" or "Trump is gonna support Israel's massacre, but what about Harris, she didn't do anything to stop them either"Those are things I have either read here on Mastodon or heard in coffee shops in the US.
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@tek @benroyce @BrianJopek In 2024, 90M eligible voters didn't vote. #2 in the race was Trump with 78M, and #3 was Harris with 75M.
Is your idea that the election was decided by people really thought to themselves, "I'm a huge lefty and I hate both Trump *and *Harris so I'll vote Trump"? That would have to swing over 3M voters. That voting rationale is largely insane and would only appeal to voters with brain damage. Could that rationale really attract 3M voters?
If I was DNC analyst, I'd focus on tweaking policies and candidates to motivate the 90M ass-sitters and not cry over 3M huge lefties with brain damage (if they even exist).
Full disclosure: I'm a huge lefty and I voted for Harris - and not a 3rd party - because FD Signifier told me to shut up and vote for Harris.
15 months later, I'm starting to believe that arguing about how to vote in future elections is, to be polite, not going to be an actual problem.
Edit: clarified that voting for Trump while admitting that you hate Trump is brain damaged. Suggesting that 3M US voters are, in fact, brain damaged in this manner is a reasonable hypothesis - just not one that I support. I think 78M Trump voters are brain damaged in other ways (racism, fascism, etc.)
@grumble209 @benroyce @BrianJopek My idea is that a critical number of voters in close states were persuaded not to vote for Harris by that kind of propaganda.
Meanwhile, approximately zero Trump voters turned to Harris or stayed home for those reasons. It’s a plague on the left here, one the right seems immune to.
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@tek @benroyce @BrianJopek Who ever said that? Name three. This sounds like a straw man argument to me.
Speaking for myself, most people who hate both the GOP Candidate and the DNC Candidate either vote 3rd party or don't vote at all.
@grumble209
Your last line is what Ben is talking about. Those people decided not to vote and basically handed Chump the election. Don't believe me, go look at the vote totals vs registered voters and past elections. Chump got roughly the same number of votes in 2024 as he got in 2020 and only a small increase over 2016. Hillary lost because people chose not to vote. Harris lost because people chose not to vote. -
@grumble209
Any time someone starts off their discussions about the evils of a specific person with "But what about X"... They are basically admitting it. "Trump is in the Epstein files, but what about Bill Clinton" or "Trump is gonna support Israel's massacre, but what about Harris, she didn't do anything to stop them either"Those are things I have either read here on Mastodon or heard in coffee shops in the US.
@nikatjef @grumble209 @benroyce @BrianJopek I couldn’t agree more.
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@grumble209 @benroyce @BrianJopek My idea is that a critical number of voters in close states were persuaded not to vote for Harris by that kind of propaganda.
Meanwhile, approximately zero Trump voters turned to Harris or stayed home for those reasons. It’s a plague on the left here, one the right seems immune to.
left leaning nonvoters are victims of the same psyop agenda as MAGA is
-the same agenda, not exactly the same psyop
the psyop on MAGA is to pump them up, get them to vote
the psyop method playing on the toxic idealism and mindless cynicism on the left is to spread hopelessness and helplessness, to immobilize and suppress their vote
and many people supposedly on the left listen to these agent provocateur voices cosplaying left, and believe them
fucking morons
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@tek @benroyce @cy @BrianJopek Hmm, #Kamala a tyrant? Could somebody with that laugh ever be considered a tyrant? I say no. Many have categorized that laugh as annoying, or unPresidential, or whatever, I always considered it infectious.
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left leaning nonvoters are victims of the same psyop agenda as MAGA is
-the same agenda, not exactly the same psyop
the psyop on MAGA is to pump them up, get them to vote
the psyop method playing on the toxic idealism and mindless cynicism on the left is to spread hopelessness and helplessness, to immobilize and suppress their vote
and many people supposedly on the left listen to these agent provocateur voices cosplaying left, and believe them
fucking morons
@benroyce @grumble209 @BrianJopek Preach it, good sir.
They don't have to sway everyone. They only have to add a few to the right, remove a few from the left, and tip the scales just enough.
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by the way, these checks and balances do not just apply to the supreme court and congress
it applies to *you*
FUCKING #VOTE, PEOPLE
the next dem candidate may SUCK. fucking SUCK
(they won't suck IF YOU SHOW UP IN THE FUCKING PRIMARIES, USELESS WHINERS)
as if the dem candidate sucking fucking matters with a fascist threat like trump and MAGA
a vote is not a statement of eternal love
it's tactics in a larger war
fight the war and fuck your mindless cynicism and toxic idealism
A recent related thought:
When this criticism comes from an individual, it's fair. People who stayed home did fuck things up badly by not voting for the better option and leaving us with literally the worst president this country has ever seen.
However, when this criticism comes from the democratic party or someone in power there, I get pissed off. It's their job to get voters energized and get them voting and they failed at it. Miserably. Multiple times.
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A recent related thought:
When this criticism comes from an individual, it's fair. People who stayed home did fuck things up badly by not voting for the better option and leaving us with literally the worst president this country has ever seen.
However, when this criticism comes from the democratic party or someone in power there, I get pissed off. It's their job to get voters energized and get them voting and they failed at it. Miserably. Multiple times.
who gives a fuck
why consider anything the democratic establishment says
they fucking suck
just ignore them, show the fuck up to vote, and replace them with real leftists
that's it
why do we fucking care what some spineless centrist democratic party asshole thinks?
why are our emotions centered on their words? why should we ever care?
just fucking ignore the useless pieces of shit and vote them out
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who gives a fuck
why consider anything the democratic establishment says
they fucking suck
just ignore them, show the fuck up to vote, and replace them with real leftists
that's it
why do we fucking care what some spineless centrist democratic party asshole thinks?
why are our emotions centered on their words? why should we ever care?
just fucking ignore the useless pieces of shit and vote them out
@benroyce @gbargoud @BrianJopek
...says every #MAGA idiot who is in a panic over the looming elections. #BothSides
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@benroyce @gbargoud @BrianJopek
...says every #MAGA idiot who is in a panic over the looming elections. #BothSides
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who gives a fuck
why consider anything the democratic establishment says
they fucking suck
just ignore them, show the fuck up to vote, and replace them with real leftists
that's it
why do we fucking care what some spineless centrist democratic party asshole thinks?
why are our emotions centered on their words? why should we ever care?
just fucking ignore the useless pieces of shit and vote them out
I do ignore them and plan to continue doing so except when voting them out in the primaries or holding my nose and voting for them in the generals if the primaries didn't work out and they are up against a fascist again.
This was more of an observation about how the same words should be interpreted differently depending on who says them.
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@grumble209
Any time someone starts off their discussions about the evils of a specific person with "But what about X"... They are basically admitting it. "Trump is in the Epstein files, but what about Bill Clinton" or "Trump is gonna support Israel's massacre, but what about Harris, she didn't do anything to stop them either"Those are things I have either read here on Mastodon or heard in coffee shops in the US.
@nikatjef @tek @benroyce @BrianJopek I'm sympathetic to that argument, but humans each have their own personal limit to exactly how evil a candidate can be and still get their vote, as well as how evil the policies of a candidate actually are in their subjective opinion.
With 90M ass-sitters here in America - by far the largest (non)voting block - I suspect that both of our major political parties rely on the ass-sitters remaining on their asses. At least up until now - God Bless Mr. Mamdani.
Some issues, some candidates are highly contentious. Look at 1860: once the issue of national slavery came to a head, the whole system - based on elite privilege and lies and assholery - flew apart.
I'm not saying that 2024 was anything like 1860. I'm saying that the tensions in America today seem to rhyme with the tensions in America in the 1850s. And the system back then could not peacefully deal with that level of internal conflict. I doubt that our system will peacefully deal with the current levels of internal conflict.
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I do ignore them and plan to continue doing so except when voting them out in the primaries or holding my nose and voting for them in the generals if the primaries didn't work out and they are up against a fascist again.
This was more of an observation about how the same words should be interpreted differently depending on who says them.
@gbargoud @BrianJopek @benroyce Thank you. Refusing to vote for them if they make it through the primary process is what got us Trump.
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I do ignore them and plan to continue doing so except when voting them out in the primaries or holding my nose and voting for them in the generals if the primaries didn't work out and they are up against a fascist again.
This was more of an observation about how the same words should be interpreted differently depending on who says them.
no argument
well said
i merely worry about this "man i really hate the establishment dems, so i'm all for not voting and handing our country to MAGA"
which is fucking stupid but it exists out there
not accusing you of it, i'm making sure i put an asterisk on your words to preempt that unfortunate moronic sentiment out there
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@benroyce @gbargoud @BrianJopek
I don't care if #MTG herself decides to run as a #Democrat, I'd vote for her before I'd vote #Republican ever again.Some #Democrats may suck, sure, but discouraging people from voting b/c of #BothSides idiocy is only doing the hard Right's work for them.
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by the way, these checks and balances do not just apply to the supreme court and congress
it applies to *you*
FUCKING #VOTE, PEOPLE
the next dem candidate may SUCK. fucking SUCK
(they won't suck IF YOU SHOW UP IN THE FUCKING PRIMARIES, USELESS WHINERS)
as if the dem candidate sucking fucking matters with a fascist threat like trump and MAGA
a vote is not a statement of eternal love
it's tactics in a larger war
fight the war and fuck your mindless cynicism and toxic idealism
@benroyce @BrianJopek When only 25% (which is typical) of Democrats show up for primary elections, we have seen what we get.
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left leaning nonvoters are victims of the same psyop agenda as MAGA is
-the same agenda, not exactly the same psyop
the psyop on MAGA is to pump them up, get them to vote
the psyop method playing on the toxic idealism and mindless cynicism on the left is to spread hopelessness and helplessness, to immobilize and suppress their vote
and many people supposedly on the left listen to these agent provocateur voices cosplaying left, and believe them
fucking morons
@benroyce @tek @BrianJopek Once, I thought voting Green Party was a reasonable position.
Then I saw this photo.
There might be 3rd parties in the US that aren't compromised or useful idiots. But the Green Party isn't one of them.
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@tek @Thumper1964 @benroyce @cy @BrianJopek
Both sides are the same is almost always a telling excuse for your own side. Are there independents who share your issue? Who do they caucus with? WHO DO THEY CAUCUS WITH? -
@benroyce @gbargoud @BrianJopek
I don't care if #MTG herself decides to run as a #Democrat, I'd vote for her before I'd vote #Republican ever again.Some #Democrats may suck, sure, but discouraging people from voting b/c of #BothSides idiocy is only doing the hard Right's work for them.
@MugsysRapSheet @gbargoud @BrianJopek
i get it, you're agreeing with me. i thought you were arguing against me
sorry, i'm punch drunk
