CONTEXT
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva In the US - or large pats of it, anyway - that's the pragmatic approach. In other places, Europe generally for instance, we don't need more cars. We desperately need to reduce numbers, weight, and size of cars, and continue to ramp up genuinely good and cheap public transport.
The US needs that just as much as us, of course, but it's a hell of a job trying to counter 200 years of Rugged Individualism and at least 100 years of intense propaganda
@brad @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
no argument
except that this is an orthogonal argument, another topic that you are invoking
which is fine
but it doesn't dispel the point in the top level comment blogdiva is making, nor does it support the argument GhostOnTheHalfShell is making
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@blogdiva @GhostOnTheHalfShell you should probably watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM
I think people should definitely read 99th Day, because the problem is the level of resource use, and the destructive payload that comes with energy production.
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
bullshit
get everyone an EV, and then the game becomes moving the power plants off fossil fuels. which is being done
of course mining resources for EV batteries is a concern
much less of a concern than fossil fuel extraction
especially in regards to climate change
that difference matters
of course it's not perfect
as if anyone concerned with magical impossible perfection is thinking clearly or remotely a serious person
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
bullshit
get everyone an EV, and then the game becomes moving the power plants off fossil fuels. which is being done
of course mining resources for EV batteries is a concern
much less of a concern than fossil fuel extraction
especially in regards to climate change
that difference matters
of course it's not perfect
as if anyone concerned with magical impossible perfection is thinking clearly or remotely a serious person
@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva there is also the consideration wrt the effects of vehicle exhaust. Unless the power plants are coal, that's a straight up win for the carbon cycle.
Of course the batteries have rare chemicals and extractive companies still come into play. But they are there for vehicles regardless.
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
bullshit
get everyone an EV, and then the game becomes moving the power plants off fossil fuels. which is being done
of course mining resources for EV batteries is a concern
much less of a concern than fossil fuel extraction
especially in regards to climate change
that difference matters
of course it's not perfect
as if anyone concerned with magical impossible perfection is thinking clearly or remotely a serious person
I repeat and will continue to repeat the only way to step off the path of destruction is the immediate reduction of all energy use, and resource use. The equation that you and I get told repeatedly is a false one..
Renewables come with a permanently destructive permanently, toxic permanently, life ending legacy.
In order to build it, we have to kill the planet.
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva In the US - or large pats of it, anyway - that's the pragmatic approach. In other places, Europe generally for instance, we don't need more cars. We desperately need to reduce numbers, weight, and size of cars, and continue to ramp up genuinely good and cheap public transport.
The US needs that just as much as us, of course, but it's a hell of a job trying to counter 200 years of Rugged Individualism and at least 100 years of intense propaganda
And 50 years of suburban sprawl, witches economically insolvent by the way.
The least expensive most resource and energy efficient way to save the planet is to make car free, walkable and reasonably self-sufficient communities.
The best way to think about this is the length of the supply chain you rely on is level of energy and environmental destruction you rely on.
The most effective way to observe planetary boundaries is to live within the means of your locality
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I repeat and will continue to repeat the only way to step off the path of destruction is the immediate reduction of all energy use, and resource use. The equation that you and I get told repeatedly is a false one..
Renewables come with a permanently destructive permanently, toxic permanently, life ending legacy.
In order to build it, we have to kill the planet.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
this is the trap of perfectionism
there is nothing wrong with your argument, but you've decided to make another argument your enemy. even though that argument is a good thing, it is not a perfect thing, so you think you can complain
you can't
is it good we reduce our reliance on fossil fuels?
yes
is it good to reduce resource use, your agenda?
also yes
but why make enemies of these fine goals
applaud both, push both
don't make them enemies. that is a lie
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And 50 years of suburban sprawl, witches economically insolvent by the way.
The least expensive most resource and energy efficient way to save the planet is to make car free, walkable and reasonably self-sufficient communities.
The best way to think about this is the length of the supply chain you rely on is level of energy and environmental destruction you rely on.
The most effective way to observe planetary boundaries is to live within the means of your locality
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @brad @blogdiva
so go do that
i support your agenda
why must you attack another agenda that is also good?
applaud efforts to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels
*and* work on your agenda
you can do both, because both are good things
positing one as the enemy of the other is a lie
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Do you know how those cheap panels are built? Well, it turns out those panels needs tons of carbon in order to manufacture them.. in order to produce all that coal you need to use a lot of water to mine and process them. When you damn up a river, it releases many times of methane, 28 x more potent GHG.
And we’re not even the complete destruction of biomes to get at all the minerals we need copper aluminum, silver lithium etc.
Destroy the planet in order to save us from CO2
For instance, in order for China to produce those incredibly inexpensive, solar panels, they’ve caused enormous tracks of old growth forest in Southeast Asia to be cut down.
Question becomes how many brown people and how much of the world’s ecologies are you happy to obliterate as a sacrifice zone, to keep using as much energy as we do. In order to build this so-called renewable future exponentially more life has to be exterminated.
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I repeat and will continue to repeat the only way to step off the path of destruction is the immediate reduction of all energy use, and resource use. The equation that you and I get told repeatedly is a false one..
Renewables come with a permanently destructive permanently, toxic permanently, life ending legacy.
In order to build it, we have to kill the planet.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva good bet the very next proposed strategy is a eugenicist purge of half the world's latitudes
