I don't get how people consider Stoat an alternative to Matrix/XMPP/etc when:- It does not support E2EE at all.- It does not support Federation at all.- It does not support video calls (but it's in dev tbf)

I don't get how people consider Stoat an alternative to Matrix/XMPP/etc when:
- It does not support E2EE at all.
- It does not support Federation at all.
- It does not support video calls (but it's in dev tbf)

Building such a chat server is extremely easy compared to the challenges Matrix/XMPP/etc face. Anyone can build it with NodeJS and SocketIO tbh.

It's got a pretty UI I'll give them that, and as far as no-federation no-encryption selfhosted chat it IS neat, but it's not a competitor IMHO.

@anthropy Unfortunately, being basically a discord clone is a much better selling point for the friends I have even a remote chance of convincing to switch off discord than having robust security features. And in comparison to matrix, stoat is more hassle-free I must admit.
I also don't have a way to host my own matrix server *with enough uptime* for them to consider it a good option, and without having a selfhosted server there's no discord bridging.
The whole situation kinda stinks, discord shouldn't have become what it is, because now it's just entirely too hard to replace with just *one* other thing, but that's the expectation.

@ItsFunkyCaptain I understand, but my problem is:
- if hassle free and discord-like are the only expectation then there are better alternatives ( see https://mastodon.derg.nz/@anthropy/116079655246734772 )
- If you actually care about not repeating the issues that plague Discord, federation is not optional
- If you actually care about privacy and security, E2EE is not optional, and if you don't care, you can disable that in Matrix/XMPP too and get a more mature and federated alternative.

People don't seem to think this thru

@anthropy No, in theory you *are* right, yes. But what do I do when I'm met with a "I don't want to set up a million options, and preferably I don't want to install a new app at all, because I'm used to being here, so if yall leave we probably won't talk anymore" kinda response?
As for my opinion on the alternatives, I've never heard of those except rocketchat. While I'm not against trying out lesser known options, popularity matters a lot to most people, if Stoat or something else gets enough movement it'll be much easier to convince people to switch.

@ItsFunkyCaptain I have a few options I use, among which even Discord and Telegram because of that exact reason, but I refuse to use them for private matters, and I always offer people better alternatives.

I also think it's easy to overestimate Stoat's popularity because it appears popular within the Fedi bubble, but e.g Mattermost is absolutely far more widely used, and Stoat is already creaking under it's popularity gains, wasn't made for this.

Also: https://mastodon.derg.nz/@anthropy/115772278536082875

@anthropy I kinda feel stuck between a rock and a hard place with this whole situation tbh. Either i get scoffed at and called a problem by the privacy community, or I get in verbal fights and ultimately lose my friends trying to force them into using objectively better options. Don't get me wrong, I *know* there are better things, I just can't get through to all the people I need to be able to utilize them.
That is to say, I myself don't just use Discord, the only reason I still have it at all *is* because of my tiny private "server" for me and friends.