Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.

@zzt I posted this poll after a meeting where we discussed the design of the kill switch, and there was uncertainty around translations. I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions.

@decadecity I like this framing of it. Thank you!

@xela @firefoxwebdevs Translations involve either 1 or 2 models depending on the language pairs. Each language requires a model going into, and out of English. Training a language involves on the order of hundreds of GPU hours, and the largest models probably get into the thousands range. Early models were in the thousands range probably before we optimized things.

@xela @firefoxwebdevs For on-device, the power usage is on the end-user, and the text in the viewport range is translated. It's heavy CPU work that is quickly finished. So you get short bursts of heavy CPU usage while actively interacting with a translated page. All the page content is private and stays on your machine.

@firefoxwebdevs nice try, but AI functions by breaking consent, & removing ML translations when shutting off AI won't get people to accept AI. Nobody who respects consent wants it, nor will ever want it.

Why don't you skip ahead & have your "AI kill switch" simply uninstall Firefox while you're at it.

We all know that's the inevitable conclusion.

@firefoxwebdevs
Thank you for asking

@made @firefoxwebdevs There's already lots of work for on-device ML: https://searchfox.org/firefox-main/search?q=toolkit%2Fcomponents%2Fml

Integrating models into a finalized product with the wide spectrum of end-user devices is tricky though, so it has to be done with care.

@firefoxwebdevs
Unfortunately nothing by mozilla is now trustworthy.

Just make a browser that is reliable, follows system theme / uI, has tabs attached to pages and doesn't make plug-ins obsolete. Even PDF should be OFF by default.

It's been getting more broken every year.

Forget integrating translations and AI.

@firefoxwebdevs @zzt
" I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions."

Then KILL ALL The stupid non-browser functions.

Remove ALL AI code.

Make Firefox work.
Fix printing,

Make it follow system GUI / theme.

Stop copying Chrome or Wiindows.

@tassoman @firefoxwebdevs the question is about the page translation feature, not chats.

@zzt @firefoxwebdevs that feature is in the works since at least 2019 and was released in Firefox 118 in September 2023
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/local-translation-add-on-project-bergamot/

https://www.firefox.com/en-US/firefox/118.0/releasenotes/?redirect_source=mozilla-org

@firefoxwebdevs Wow, lots of entirely unhelpful and frankly rude comments in this thread.

Thank you for actually taking the time to listen to user feedback, it's much appreciated! Personally, I think anything AI/ML/LLM should be included in the Kill Switch, but with the option to turn on each feature manually.

@firefoxwebdevs it would be compelling to hear someone at Mozilla recognise that you don't have this "kill switch" yet but you're already facing the problem of what to kill.

It would also be compelling to hear someone at Mozilla recognise that there is a browser and there are browser extensions and that "translation" has nothing to do with the operating system of a web browser.

@firefoxwebdevs it would be nice if the "AI kill switch" had:
a list of each of the models used, what for, and whether they're trained on open data, each having a "disable this" switch
a thing right at the top of the list which says "I don't care, kill all this AI stuff"

but that would require putting a list of all the different things that Firefox is now using AI for and whether each is using fair models or not, which I suspect a lot of management won't want to document clearly to users

@firefoxwebdevs you are missing the 'Or should we use common sense and just remove all the AI crap so we don't need a kill switch' option.

@firefoxwebdevs It would also be compelling if a team at Mozilla were dedicated to building the best browser translation add-on on the market, for all browsers. To promote the power of add-ons and, at the same time, the Mozilla brand.

@firefoxwebdevs jonah, I hate to break it to you and the LLM shaped like a product manager that’s setting the agenda for your meetings, but the only time I hear about Firefox translations in any context is when Mozilla PMs try to hold it up as an example of an ethical, low-resource, useful AI feature so they can convince to be a fan of the worthless LLM shit they’re actually there to push

the reason why I don’t hear about translations otherwise is simple: it’s shit

@firefoxwebdevs it would be compelling if the future of Firefox was to be the fastest, most secure, most efficient browser engine with the best add-on ecosystem.

It would also be compelling to hear someone from Mozilla talk about their design effort to improve add-on adoption rather than forcing add-on-level-functionality into the core product

@firefoxwebdevs neither translations nor any LLM feature have any business being built into Firefox. they should all be add-ons, at best. preferably add-ons developed by any other company than Mozilla. nobody wanted their donations to go to this crap.

like with translations, anyone who feels like they need LLM horseshit in their browser is very likely already using an implementation other than the one built into Firefox.

@shadowwwind @firefoxwebdevs pardon me? did you reply to the wrong post?