@OneInterestingFact @CptSuperlative @lionelb @SoftwareTheron @mancavgeek @lp0_on_fire @thomas_klopf @oblomov @Beeker @normjess @musing_sys @tbn97 @jasperamorgan

You could build something around France. They have an independent nuclear deterrent and I believe their arms industry isn't integrated with US. The most challenging part would be an integrated military command structure. The EU has the CSDP which could be expanded fairly quickly.

@CptSuperlative Ukraine is a lost cause. We can't guarantee its safety even with US involvement. Better to seek neutral status for whatever rump state is left after a peace deal and do our best to limit Russian political/economic hegemony over it. And while we're at it we should be wary of military alliances with Baltic states discriminating against their Russian speaking citizens. We need an offramp from hatred.