@GinevraCat @Holberg @ShaulaEvans @kims Or you could pay for one in Switzerland. Not cheap, but as long as you fit the age requirements (you're about my age? Maybe?), they'll give it to you.

@KimSJ @david_chisnall @futurebird Right? The concern I was expressing was this - useful things don't NEED to be huge. But so many people don't even have the skills to make them clean and small now.

Even when I write with bloated languages/frameworks/tools now, I still think about what the code I'm writing is going to do and try to be parsimonious. But it IS a skill and if folks don't learn it, of course they won't do it.

@david_chisnall @futurebird Oh, and there's the fact that writing clean code requires time and thought. Given the number of teams I've been on which required several people to do the project, but only one gets employed - with the exact same deadlines as a full team - I've no doubt that contributes to code being produced that looks like a shitty first draft every time. Because it has to be.

@david_chisnall @futurebird yeah, I can certainly agree that the incentives for writing small, clear, maintainable programs are... hidden, at best. That's part of what angers me.

And the management incentives - LOC, releases regardless of what's in them, integration of AI into things even if it will break everything, are powerful.

I would like to go live on the moon, please.

@david_chisnall @futurebird But also, I've seen a lot of less experienced programmers, before vibe coding was possible, just write thousands of lines of code for something that could be a hundred because no one teaches them the value of parsimony or requires the abstract/mathematical/architectural sophistication of them to really understand what's going on at a low level.

I know this is very Old Woman Yells At Clouds, but part of why even non-AI-generated code ends up being pointless is that someone decided Moore's Law was an excuse to not teach what was going on under the hood. I can't even have a conversation about how why things are bad with juniors sometimes because they aren't asked to think that way. Not ALL of them, by any means. But a lot.

Ah well. Since nobody can afford RAM anymore anyway, people will either run slop code in the cloud no one can debug, use, or maintain, or learn the hard way.

I despair.

@hacks4pancakes @cR0w

@hacks4pancakes @FeloniousPunk not to somehow indicate I think the fuckers on that list were innocent rubes, duped, mind you. Was just thinking about our community's hubris aloud.

@hacks4pancakes @FeloniousPunk yup. If you don't think you're vulnerable, you're already fucked.

@hacks4pancakes "but I'm immune to social engineering and propaganda because I knoooooow about it."

Uh huh. Yup. Right

@evacide very yes

@adriano @quixoticgeek @darkphoenix @marjolica @thordis we'll accept you.