A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child.
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So it's now my job as an adult to figure out what a healthy relationship to anger would actually look like.
My answer to a healthy relationship to anger is hyper-rationality, but not the Vulcan way, nor by suppressing the anger. But rather that by understanding events are caused by a long chain of cause and effects and beimg aware of this chain. This associated that the notion of "fault" is an illusion and does not exist.
It doesn't suppress or remove anger, but makes it way shorter and more controlled.
I can elaborate if you want, but it'll have to be later.
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@artemis
Yes. I've found that my anger is repressed and I've learned to suppress it, too. It tends to burst out in unhealthy ways which got me into therapy for a few years. It's much healthier to recognize my anger and engage with it so I can direct its output in positive ways rather than letting the pressure build until I lash out at someone who doesn't deserve it.It is OK to be angry, probably good, even, when it is called for.
@thezerobit
Yes, exactly this. Repressing anger doesn't keep it in forever, & when it does boil over, it feels like a raging wildfire you can't contain.I have a friend with DID who pretty much locked off all of her anger in an alter she used to refer to quite derogatorily, because she thought of it as the "mean" part of herself. Watching her learn to accept what is necessary & good about that part of herself helped me see how forbidden & scary it felt to me too.
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I understand your point. As a parent, however, directing an 8 year old away from smashing a dish into the 5 year old's face has inherent value independent of any later effects on their political actions.
@dpfyhrie @artemis
Yeah, but that is not anger though. I think it's worth understanding anger and decoupling it from actions and words, understand which is which and where they come from, so we can stop wrong words/actions and not anger. The conflating is a very good way to repress anger
(Absolutely not saying it's easy) -
My answer to a healthy relationship to anger is hyper-rationality, but not the Vulcan way, nor by suppressing the anger. But rather that by understanding events are caused by a long chain of cause and effects and beimg aware of this chain. This associated that the notion of "fault" is an illusion and does not exist.
It doesn't suppress or remove anger, but makes it way shorter and more controlled.
I can elaborate if you want, but it'll have to be later.
@Lily_and_frog
If you do wish to elaborate later, I would love to hear more!It sounds like your approach aligns with what I am trying to understand better in myself. I like to approach my emotions with curiosity & understanding. I find this doesn't make the emotion go away, but it means I don't feel as "out of control" or overwhelmed.
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I'm not saying you should let your kids scream at people & throw things, but there is a lot of daylight between "that's not an appropriate way to treat someone else" & "you are not supposed to ever be noticeably angry."
@artemis one of the best tools I have found for helping kids deal with big emotions is the Incredible 5 point scale. https://www.5pointscale.com/
I brainstorm with them while they are calm how they can climb down the ladder. Counting to 10, blowing up.a pretend balloon, stomping etc. So when explosions happen I just have to say 'Oh it looks like you're angry at a 5, how do we get to a 4, so we can start to fix it?'. It doesn't always work straight away but it certainly helps a lot.
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@thezerobit
Yes, exactly this. Repressing anger doesn't keep it in forever, & when it does boil over, it feels like a raging wildfire you can't contain.I have a friend with DID who pretty much locked off all of her anger in an alter she used to refer to quite derogatorily, because she thought of it as the "mean" part of herself. Watching her learn to accept what is necessary & good about that part of herself helped me see how forbidden & scary it felt to me too.
@artemis
My partner has gotten a lot out of IFS (internal family systems) as a way to engage with different parts of her psyche: https://ifs-institute.com/nobadparts . The title of the book, "No Bad Parts", is a pretty good summary of the approach. I haven't gotten too far investigating IFS, but so far it resonates with aspects of mindful meditation practice that have taught me to explore my thoughts and feelings with curiosity rather than judgment. -
@artemis one of the best tools I have found for helping kids deal with big emotions is the Incredible 5 point scale. https://www.5pointscale.com/
I brainstorm with them while they are calm how they can climb down the ladder. Counting to 10, blowing up.a pretend balloon, stomping etc. So when explosions happen I just have to say 'Oh it looks like you're angry at a 5, how do we get to a 4, so we can start to fix it?'. It doesn't always work straight away but it certainly helps a lot.
@urbanfoxe
I am such a huge fan of things that help kids recognize & understand their emotional experience. Learning that from a young age is transformational. -
A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child. If so, you should find it & get it back."
I'm entirely serious about that. A lot of us were trained as kids that the people in charge of us could be angry, but we needed to be quiet & submissive in the face of "authority".
No. Your anger is yours. Your anger is powerful. Find it. Harness it. Direct it.
It was taken from you because it gives you power.
@artemis "Anger is a gift."
Rage Against The Machine - "Freedom" -
I'm not saying you should let your kids scream at people & throw things, but there is a lot of daylight between "that's not an appropriate way to treat someone else" & "you are not supposed to ever be noticeably angry."
Also AuDHD, and I still struggle with this. Anger tends to mean I burst into tears, which is literally the worst for me. It's consistently read wrong by others, especially at the doctor's office and then they ask if I want a psych. It's like "No, I want a doctor who listens and isn't demeaning. If I have to wade through your office losing files, not filing for required appointments and infantilizing me one more time I'm going to lose it."
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A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child. If so, you should find it & get it back."
I'm entirely serious about that. A lot of us were trained as kids that the people in charge of us could be angry, but we needed to be quiet & submissive in the face of "authority".
No. Your anger is yours. Your anger is powerful. Find it. Harness it. Direct it.
It was taken from you because it gives you power.
@artemis
Yessss! This! -
N Marianne shared this topic
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A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child. If so, you should find it & get it back."
I'm entirely serious about that. A lot of us were trained as kids that the people in charge of us could be angry, but we needed to be quiet & submissive in the face of "authority".
No. Your anger is yours. Your anger is powerful. Find it. Harness it. Direct it.
It was taken from you because it gives you power.
@artemis every 'angry feminist' should recognise this one..!
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A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child. If so, you should find it & get it back."
I'm entirely serious about that. A lot of us were trained as kids that the people in charge of us could be angry, but we needed to be quiet & submissive in the face of "authority".
No. Your anger is yours. Your anger is powerful. Find it. Harness it. Direct it.
It was taken from you because it gives you power.
@artemis this. Thank you! Harnessing it, and directing it well/appropriately being vitally important, of course.
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A few days ago I posted, "you may have had your anger stolen from you as a child. If so, you should find it & get it back."
I'm entirely serious about that. A lot of us were trained as kids that the people in charge of us could be angry, but we needed to be quiet & submissive in the face of "authority".
No. Your anger is yours. Your anger is powerful. Find it. Harness it. Direct it.
It was taken from you because it gives you power.
@artemis when i get angry, shit breaks. so i try to avoid it. to me it's not power. it is loss of control.
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@artemis when i get angry, shit breaks. so i try to avoid it. to me it's not power. it is loss of control.
@lritter
I hear you, & I do relate. For me, that feeling of loss of control is why I want to become more acquainted with & comfortable with it, because I feel like I'm inexperienced with healthy anger. The only time I let myself feel anger is in those moments where it feels wild & out of control.I'm hopeful that I can become better "friends" with it. When I am feeling sad, I'm able to sit & try to understand myself. When I feel angry, I try to shut it off, & I don't think it's serving me
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@lritter
I hear you, & I do relate. For me, that feeling of loss of control is why I want to become more acquainted with & comfortable with it, because I feel like I'm inexperienced with healthy anger. The only time I let myself feel anger is in those moments where it feels wild & out of control.I'm hopeful that I can become better "friends" with it. When I am feeling sad, I'm able to sit & try to understand myself. When I feel angry, I try to shut it off, & I don't think it's serving me
@artemis when i get angry i mentally go through the four movements of beethoven's 9th symphony. the first movement: that's him getting angry. over and over. finding no rest.
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Emotions themselves are neither good nor bad, but they *are* powerful. Especially anger. It has some uses we need right now.
Many of us were literally told there were things we were *not allowed* to be angry about. That is authoritarian control. People "above you" do NOT get to tell you what you may or may not be angry about.
@artemis That's exactly what happened to me too. I was a very calm child, but that's because I quickly understood and integrated the fact that shows of negative emotions had no place in our household and if I was angry then I was the problem.
This made me a depressed teen and unstable young adult, and it took years of therapy to get rid of the layers of bullshit and tame the ball of burning, seething anger that I felt was my core.
Repressing emotions can be so damaging to a child, people have no idea.
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@Lily_and_frog
If you do wish to elaborate later, I would love to hear more!It sounds like your approach aligns with what I am trying to understand better in myself. I like to approach my emotions with curiosity & understanding. I find this doesn't make the emotion go away, but it means I don't feel as "out of control" or overwhelmed.
Okay, I'll try to explain my life philosophy in a very short way, and link it with anger.
Let's start with general, self evident, stuff worth stating clearly.
1. Everything has causes and effects.
2. We're the result of evolution. Evolution doesn't seek optimal condition, just survival. In fact, evolution doesn't "seek" anything, it just is. If something alive can reproduce, whether perfect or not, it will reproduce.
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Okay, I'll try to explain my life philosophy in a very short way, and link it with anger.
Let's start with general, self evident, stuff worth stating clearly.
1. Everything has causes and effects.
2. We're the result of evolution. Evolution doesn't seek optimal condition, just survival. In fact, evolution doesn't "seek" anything, it just is. If something alive can reproduce, whether perfect or not, it will reproduce.
This means we are living in an imperfect world, and we are imperfect beings. "Perfection" is a human construct and doesn't exist outside of human imagination. Our imagination is so amazingly powerful that we can effortlessly imagine a better state of things, optimal states, and tend towards it. Why can we do that? An accident that helps survival.
We can also do suboptimal stuff that doesn't stop us surviving too much.
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This means we are living in an imperfect world, and we are imperfect beings. "Perfection" is a human construct and doesn't exist outside of human imagination. Our imagination is so amazingly powerful that we can effortlessly imagine a better state of things, optimal states, and tend towards it. Why can we do that? An accident that helps survival.
We can also do suboptimal stuff that doesn't stop us surviving too much.
We have old survival reflexes that were useful shortly after our ancestors started to dwell on land, but are a bother, without killing us, in a social animal.
Plus, natural selection acts both at the individual and group level. A behaviour benefiting the individual in the group (selfishness) will doom the group of there's too much of it. Altruism, cooperation, empathy all make groups stronger.
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We have old survival reflexes that were useful shortly after our ancestors started to dwell on land, but are a bother, without killing us, in a social animal.
Plus, natural selection acts both at the individual and group level. A behaviour benefiting the individual in the group (selfishness) will doom the group of there's too much of it. Altruism, cooperation, empathy all make groups stronger.
Humans have the capacity to learn, which is adapting their behaviour and reasoning to certain given situations. Some better than others. And the reasons for it is neurology (imagine ALL the factors affecting neurology, I'm thinking ASD and ADHD) or experience (one cannot learn stuff they've never been exposed to, or the conditions of learning), or even a learning useful in one situation but detrimental in another.
- Everything has a cause -
