Is your Mastodon timeline too empty or too full?

@FediTips

> There is no algorithm on Mastodon or other Fediverse server types.

I wish people stopped spreading this disinformation. Of course there is an algorithm. "Show all toots by peoeple you follow in chronological order unless they blocked you or your instance's admin blocked them" is an algorihtm. Algorithms by themselves are harmles; in fact they can be very useful. I wish we had better algorithms here.

What you mean is that there is no Recommendations and User Engagement team that constantly tweaks your feed to increase engament

@klu9

I've been puzzled by the translation (or lack of it) issue also

Here the key may be "Public timelines"

As I understand, this will not translate anything in your Home feed

Which is where I want auto-translation the most

cc @FediTips

@gotofritz

If you read the guide I linked to, it addresses exactly this discussion of definitions.

What you say is not what most people mean by "algorithm". I'm using the word in its common meaning of an opaque mechanism that messes around with your timeline.

@AdrianRiskin @klu9

Yup, this is the problem, people are using the wrong settings on their posts.

There is an automatic language detector but it isn't reliable enough on short posts to have it override the user. It does suggest to them when it thinks they've got it wrong though.

@FinchHaven @klu9

Many servers have a translation service in your Home feed, and if your server has it you'll see "translate" below posts in other languages.

However, the admin has to pay the translation service provider a monthly fee to have such a service. Not all admins can afford this, so they don't activate the translation feature. (The reason translations are "free" on commercial platforms is they're paying for the translations by selling your data etc).

@FediTips

I read the guide you linked to, and I quoted from it if you didin't notice.

What "most people" mean by algorithm is due to people like yourself spreading disinfo. What you end up doing is killing the neutral meaning of "algorithm", ironically just for engagement. Do better.

@gotofritz

it's not disinformation, it's just everyday language vs technical language. There are lots of words which have slightly different meanings in different contexts.

For example, if someone uses the word "computer" they will probably mean a laptop or a desktop. They will not mean a smartphone or a tablet even though both of these are technically computers as well.

"ironically just for engagement"

Absolutely not. I am trying to use ordinary language to make this place easier to use.

@klu9

Weird! Is it doing the "read more" when it goes over a certain length, or is it just random?

If you don't mind me asking, what are you using to view Mastodon?

@FediTips

I understand this

My instance use LibreTranslate

My issue is remote instances that throw an httpd 404 or httpd 503 at any attempt to translate a post from one of their posters, even when I go to their profile feed and try to translate directly from their home instance, or where posts in my Home feed don't even offer Translate at all

It's really an inexcusable weak point

I remember on Github (where I follow Mastodon development) where quite some time ago Gargron himself blew off the entire auto-translate issue as too marginal to bother addressing programmatically in the distribution itself

His attitude was basically "Meh... they should all be able to read European (meaning German) anyway..."

So here we are: Mastodon as a Tower of Babel

cc @klu9

@FediTips

Re Read more, maybe it depends on source platform (Mastodon with high limit, Sharkey, Piefed etc.)

@FediTips @gotofritz

I have to disagree with you, Fedi...

The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions for solving a problem or accomplishing a specific task.

You use a very small subset of "most people" and take that as your definition of most people and then couple that to what you think most people mean when using the word.

Are you spreading misinformation?

It depends: if you are deliberately creating or spreading it in order to deceive people, to influence opinion or cause harm, the answer would be yes.

If that is not the case, then at the very least, your information is incomplete, even in the context of Mastodon.

If your intention is to convince people about how and why Mastodon is better than other platforms, you have to be precise.

@FinchHaven

Are you attempting to use translate on a different server's website?

@BlameDutchie @gotofritz

"The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions"

I'm not talking about a technical dictionary definition, I mean the way non-technical people actually use that word in the real world.

They'll typically say something like "the algorithm is showing me stuff" or "the algorithm has hidden my post".

My accounts and websites are largely aimed at non-technical people, so I try to use non-technical meanings and words.

@FediTips

I am attemting to translate using the Translate text at the bottom of given post

Again my instance uses LibreTranslate

Sometimes I'll click through to the post on the origin instance and try there

Sometimes (when I have a lot of time to waste and I'm in a better mood) I'll open up the instances

/public/local

and see

1) if they have any posts in anything other than their native language, and

2) do they seem to offer any translation at all

And here's the core point:

how much effort should I be expected to expand, to translate a foreign / European/ German post just to read something that ends up being extremely mundane

And how much finite screen space am I expected to give to posts / posters I'll never be able to translate and read?

I've already Muted and Blocked two in the last 15 minutes...

@FinchHaven

Are you seeing a "translate" button below remote posts you are viewing within your own instance's website?

If you are, what happens when you click it? (Not on the origin instance but when viewed within your own instance's interface.)

@FediTips @BlameDutchie

You just repeat the same thing over and over. You have arbitrarily decided what "most people" mean and you have decided what are the words one should use with "them" and you have no intention of even contemplating you may have got it wrong. Waste of time talking to you

Btw, I don't follow you, your posts keep turning up in my feed because the fediverse algorithm is pushing them into my feed

@FediTips

JFC...

I have four tabs open, Firefox web browser on Ubuntu, to my home instance

/home

/public/local

my Lists

and my Profile home

I'm on my /home tab viewing posts

I am looking for and using the Translate tag at the lower left of a given post

Do you need a screenshot to understand what I'm saying?

Or do you think I don't know what I'm talking about?

@FediTips @gotofritz

I agree with Fritz... You are not even willing to consider you could do better.

So be it. I have better things to do than trying to convince someone he is writing like an AI.

Cheers.

@FinchHaven

"Or do you think I don't know what I'm talking about?"

Absolutely not! I am the one who doesn't understand, I am trying to get a better picture of what is going on by asking for details

I'm trying to help.

p.s. Good grief. I'm trying to help people use this place and just got accused of "disinformation" and "causing harm" because they didn't like the way I used the word algorithm in the guide.

Can we please chill out and be a bit more friendly? The Fedi relies on volunteers helping each other and making suggestions in a constructive way.

If I've done something wrong it is brilliant if you point it out, most of the guides rely on people correcting me. But there is no need for personal attacks.