@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social @elly
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> stay away from GrapheneOS's toxic community
> never been to your chats, so I won't comment whether that's true or not
It's the postmarketOS community and many other parts of the open source community which are toxic. It's their project members and community members heavily participating in bullying and harassment not only towards our founder and team but also our community. Our community chat rooms are heavily targeted with endless raids including from YOUR toxic community.
@elly @domi Claiming our team and community are toxic is DARVO attacks. Your community is raiding our rooms, engaging in endless personal attacks and libelous fabricated stories but somehow it's our community not doing those things towards you folks which is the toxic one. How is that meant to work? These false claims go right along with the claims that our founder is insane, delusional, etc. and are pervasive in the postmarketOS community and elsewhere. Our community isn't doing that, yours is.
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@elly @domi Claiming our team and community are toxic is DARVO attacks. Your community is raiding our rooms, engaging in endless personal attacks and libelous fabricated stories but somehow it's our community not doing those things towards you folks which is the toxic one. How is that meant to work? These false claims go right along with the claims that our founder is insane, delusional, etc. and are pervasive in the postmarketOS community and elsewhere. Our community isn't doing that, yours is.
@GrapheneOS @elly @domi looks like pmOS has a code of conduct team. if you've reported the raids and the community members behind the raids haven't received any repercussions, I would definitely start mentally putting pmOS in the "best stay away" category -
@GrapheneOS @elly @domi looks like pmOS has a code of conduct team. if you've reported the raids and the community members behind the raids haven't received any repercussions, I would definitely start mentally putting pmOS in the "best stay away" category@mei @domi @elly @GrapheneOS As far as I know we have not received anything like that so far.
I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats. If you have proof it would be nice to link to them because so far it's mostly been "trust me bro" (no offense intended).
Take care -
R ActivityRelay shared this topic
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@mei @domi @elly @GrapheneOS As far as I know we have not received anything like that so far.
I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats. If you have proof it would be nice to link to them because so far it's mostly been "trust me bro" (no offense intended).
Take care@mei @GrapheneOS @domi @elly note that I have PMs disabled on fediverse, if you want to share these in PM please do so to "f_" on irc.oftc.net or @funderscore:postmarketos.org -
@mei @GrapheneOS @domi @elly note that I have PMs disabled on fediverse, if you want to share these in PM please do so to "f_" on irc.oftc.net or @funderscore:postmarketos.org@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei (I am *not* part of the CoC team, but I can reach out to them as needed)
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@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei (I am *not* part of the CoC team, but I can reach out to them as needed)@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei you can also email coc@postmarketos.org by the way, that'd be the preferred option.
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@mei @domi @elly @GrapheneOS As far as I know we have not received anything like that so far.
I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats. If you have proof it would be nice to link to them because so far it's mostly been "trust me bro" (no offense intended).
Take care> I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats.
We said the postmarketOS has done that not the postmarketOS team.
> If you have proof it would be nice to link to them
We do have it.
> so far it's mostly been "trust me bro"
Multiple people on the postmarketOS team have seen what one of them posted on Twitter along with many others. There's no point claiming that it never happened.
We're talking to @ariadne about it now rather than here.
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> I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats.
We said the postmarketOS has done that not the postmarketOS team.
> If you have proof it would be nice to link to them
We do have it.
> so far it's mostly been "trust me bro"
Multiple people on the postmarketOS team have seen what one of them posted on Twitter along with many others. There's no point claiming that it never happened.
We're talking to @ariadne about it now rather than here.
@fun @domi @elly @mei @ariadne We removed some of our posts here to talk about it privately instead which we are doing and if you stop making accusations towards us then we'll stop posting about it here. We're entirely capable of finding and posting an archive of the deleted posts on Twitter if people are denying it happened, but as far as we know the person who did it is not denying that it happened. As a general rule we're not going to report a project itself due to bad experiences with it.
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> I am also not aware of any team member actively raiding GrapheneOS chats.
We said the postmarketOS has done that not the postmarketOS team.
> If you have proof it would be nice to link to them
We do have it.
> so far it's mostly been "trust me bro"
Multiple people on the postmarketOS team have seen what one of them posted on Twitter along with many others. There's no point claiming that it never happened.
We're talking to @ariadne about it now rather than here.
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei @ariadne
I'm glad you're talking to @ariadne about this. She's nice.
I hope both projects can collaborate on things one day, I think that would be very beneficial tech-wise, as you (GrapheneOS team) have a lot of insights on security and such for example, so we can share notes etc...
Take care of yourself! -
@fun @domi @elly @mei @ariadne We removed some of our posts here to talk about it privately instead which we are doing and if you stop making accusations towards us then we'll stop posting about it here. We're entirely capable of finding and posting an archive of the deleted posts on Twitter if people are denying it happened, but as far as we know the person who did it is not denying that it happened. As a general rule we're not going to report a project itself due to bad experiences with it.
@fun @domi @elly @mei @ariadne Fedora addressed bullying/libel we reported by having 2 people remove posts. GNOME simply ignored our reports.
Here's Mozilla:
> The actions that are alleged to have violated the CPG are:
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> Disruptive behaviour: calling that people “allow nazis to contribute to your project”
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> Personal attacks: accusing other people of swatting you and other engineers.Those "other people" weren't their project members, just to clarify.
> should be addressed to the police
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@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei @ariadne
I'm glad you're talking to @ariadne about this. She's nice.
I hope both projects can collaborate on things one day, I think that would be very beneficial tech-wise, as you (GrapheneOS team) have a lot of insights on security and such for example, so we can share notes etc...
Take care of yourself!@GrapheneOS @ariadne @domi @elly @mei I hate drama and I'm sure you hate it too so if this can be solved well I'm all for it
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@fun @domi @elly @mei @ariadne We removed some of our posts here to talk about it privately instead which we are doing and if you stop making accusations towards us then we'll stop posting about it here. We're entirely capable of finding and posting an archive of the deleted posts on Twitter if people are denying it happened, but as far as we know the person who did it is not denying that it happened. As a general rule we're not going to report a project itself due to bad experiences with it.
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei That's nice of you ^^
Yeah perhaps avoid fingerpointing in Twitter at this point in time, I want this solved peacefully and I'm sure you want this too. Fingerpointing may just make things worse. -
@fun @domi @elly @mei @ariadne Fedora addressed bullying/libel we reported by having 2 people remove posts. GNOME simply ignored our reports.
Here's Mozilla:
> The actions that are alleged to have violated the CPG are:
>
> Disruptive behaviour: calling that people “allow nazis to contribute to your project”
>
> Personal attacks: accusing other people of swatting you and other engineers.Those "other people" weren't their project members, just to clarify.
> should be addressed to the police
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei @ariadne If there's anything else you need from me, I accept PMs from irc/matrix (irc preferred but matrix also works), so you know where to find me -
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei That's nice of you ^^
Yeah perhaps avoid fingerpointing in Twitter at this point in time, I want this solved peacefully and I'm sure you want this too. Fingerpointing may just make things worse.@fun @domi @elly @mei We replied to this thread because the original post made inaccurate claims about AOSP and projects based on it including GrapheneOS. We then saw many more attacks on GrapheneOS claiming it's non-viable, a dead end, not doing any valuable work, etc. so we replied to a few of those. Since people felt like attacking our team to promote another project, we brought up an unresolved situation which is not just about several threads on Twitter in 2023 but more recent things too.
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@fun @domi @elly @mei We replied to this thread because the original post made inaccurate claims about AOSP and projects based on it including GrapheneOS. We then saw many more attacks on GrapheneOS claiming it's non-viable, a dead end, not doing any valuable work, etc. so we replied to a few of those. Since people felt like attacking our team to promote another project, we brought up an unresolved situation which is not just about several threads on Twitter in 2023 but more recent things too.
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei It seems my message did not go through (technical difficulties heh)
I personally don't think your project is a dead end or not doing any valuable work, quite the opposite actually! I do work on postmarketOS because I'm sick and tired of the whole Android ecosystem but I'm glad projects like GrapheneOS still exist to this day. I know of a few people that use it and are overall happy with it. Personally I don't use it because it doesn't support my current phone and I don't really want to fund Google very much, but it's great that it remains an available option that is still actively maintained (which is sadly not the case for many other Android distros that died off circa 2018...) -
@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei It seems my message did not go through (technical difficulties heh)
I personally don't think your project is a dead end or not doing any valuable work, quite the opposite actually! I do work on postmarketOS because I'm sick and tired of the whole Android ecosystem but I'm glad projects like GrapheneOS still exist to this day. I know of a few people that use it and are overall happy with it. Personally I don't use it because it doesn't support my current phone and I don't really want to fund Google very much, but it's great that it remains an available option that is still actively maintained (which is sadly not the case for many other Android distros that died off circa 2018...) -
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@GrapheneOS @domi @elly @mei It seems my message did not go through (technical difficulties heh)
I personally don't think your project is a dead end or not doing any valuable work, quite the opposite actually! I do work on postmarketOS because I'm sick and tired of the whole Android ecosystem but I'm glad projects like GrapheneOS still exist to this day. I know of a few people that use it and are overall happy with it. Personally I don't use it because it doesn't support my current phone and I don't really want to fund Google very much, but it's great that it remains an available option that is still actively maintained (which is sadly not the case for many other Android distros that died off circa 2018...)@fun @domi @elly @mei We're partnered with a major Android OEM and they're actively working on supporting GrapheneOS for devices in 2027 by meeting all of our update and security requirements. They weren't able to do it for the upcoming devices because Qualcomm didn't get hardware memory tagging working properly on every variant of their latest SoC generation that's in the process of launching. The upper level cache had to be changed to support MTE and they didn't do it for each SoC variant yet.
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@fun @domi @elly @mei We're partnered with a major Android OEM and they're actively working on supporting GrapheneOS for devices in 2027 by meeting all of our update and security requirements. They weren't able to do it for the upcoming devices because Qualcomm didn't get hardware memory tagging working properly on every variant of their latest SoC generation that's in the process of launching. The upper level cache had to be changed to support MTE and they didn't do it for each SoC variant yet.
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@fun @domi @elly @mei We're partnered with a major Android OEM and they're actively working on supporting GrapheneOS for devices in 2027 by meeting all of our update and security requirements. They weren't able to do it for the upcoming devices because Qualcomm didn't get hardware memory tagging working properly on every variant of their latest SoC generation that's in the process of launching. The upper level cache had to be changed to support MTE and they didn't do it for each SoC variant yet.
@fun @domi @elly @mei Fairphone 5 doesn't have the updates and hardware-based security features we require so we can't use it. They use the end-of-life Linux 5.4 kernel branch and weren't providing LTS updates prior to end of life. It's missing a hardware memory tagging, pointer authentication and branch target identification at the CPU level and a bunch of other things. It has no secure element. The updates for firmware/drivers are problematic too, not just the Linux kernel branch they use.
