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  3. "Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets.

"Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets.

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  • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

    "Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets. For example, if you want to work, but can't find a job, then the minimum wage you'll get is zero:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200625043843/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2020-06-24/forget-ubi-says-an-economist-its-time-for-universal-basic-jobs

    --

    If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

    https://pluralistic.net/2026/02/17/no-piecework/#no-justice

    1/

    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory Doctorow
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    That's why politicians like Avi Lewis (who is running for leader of Canada's New Democratic Party) has call for a jobs guarantee: a government guarantee of a good job at a socially inclusive wage for everyone who wants one:

    https://lewisforleader.ca/ideas/dignified-work-full-plan

    (Disclosure: I have advised the Lewis campaign on technical issues and I have endorsed his candidacy.)

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    Cory DoctorowP lostprototypeL 2 Replies Last reply
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    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

      That's why politicians like Avi Lewis (who is running for leader of Canada's New Democratic Party) has call for a jobs guarantee: a government guarantee of a good job at a socially inclusive wage for everyone who wants one:

      https://lewisforleader.ca/ideas/dignified-work-full-plan

      (Disclosure: I have advised the Lewis campaign on technical issues and I have endorsed his candidacy.)

      2/

      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
      Cory Doctorow
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      If that sounds Utopian or Communist to you (or both), consider this: it was the American jobs guarantee that delivered the America's system of national parks, among many other achievements:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

      The idea of a wage for everyone who wants a job is just one interesting question raised by the concept of a "minimum wage." Even when we're talking about people who *have* wages, the idea of a "minimum wage" is anything but straightforward.

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      Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

        If that sounds Utopian or Communist to you (or both), consider this: it was the American jobs guarantee that delivered the America's system of national parks, among many other achievements:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

        The idea of a wage for everyone who wants a job is just one interesting question raised by the concept of a "minimum wage." Even when we're talking about people who *have* wages, the idea of a "minimum wage" is anything but straightforward.

        3/

        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
        Cory Doctorow
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        Take gig work: the rise of Uber and its successors created an ever-expanding class of workers, misclassified as independent contractors by employers, seeking to evade unionization, benefits and liability. It's a weird kind of "independent contractor" who gets punished for saying no to lowball offers, has to decorate their personal clothes and/or cars in their "client's" livery, and who has every movement scripted by an app controlled by their "client":

        https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/02/upward-redistribution/

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        Cory DoctorowP Alan T Perry 🇨🇦A 2 Replies Last reply
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        • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

          Take gig work: the rise of Uber and its successors created an ever-expanding class of workers, misclassified as independent contractors by employers, seeking to evade unionization, benefits and liability. It's a weird kind of "independent contractor" who gets punished for saying no to lowball offers, has to decorate their personal clothes and/or cars in their "client's" livery, and who has every movement scripted by an app controlled by their "client":

          https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/02/upward-redistribution/

          4/

          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
          Cory Doctorow
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          The pretext that a worker is actually a standalone small business confers another great advantage on their employers: it's a great boon to any boss who wants to steal their worker's wages. I'm not talking about stealing tips here (though gig-work platforms do steal tips, like crazy):

          https://www.nyc.gov/mayors-office/news/2026/01/mayor-mamdani-announces--5-million-settlement--reinstatement-of-

          5/

          Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

            The pretext that a worker is actually a standalone small business confers another great advantage on their employers: it's a great boon to any boss who wants to steal their worker's wages. I'm not talking about stealing tips here (though gig-work platforms do steal tips, like crazy):

            https://www.nyc.gov/mayors-office/news/2026/01/mayor-mamdani-announces--5-million-settlement--reinstatement-of-

            5/

            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
            Cory Doctorow
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            I'm talking about how gig-work platforms define workers' wages in the first place. This is a very salient definition in public policy debates. Gig platforms facing regulation or investigation routinely claim that their workers are paid sky-high wages. During the debate over California's Prop 22 (in which Uber and Lyft spent more than $225m to formalize worker misclassification), gig companies agreed to all kinds of reasonable-sounding wage guarantees:

            https://pluralistic.net/2020/10/14/final_ver2/#prop-22

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            Cory DoctorowP Kevin Karhan :verified:K 2 Replies Last reply
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            • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

              I'm talking about how gig-work platforms define workers' wages in the first place. This is a very salient definition in public policy debates. Gig platforms facing regulation or investigation routinely claim that their workers are paid sky-high wages. During the debate over California's Prop 22 (in which Uber and Lyft spent more than $225m to formalize worker misclassification), gig companies agreed to all kinds of reasonable-sounding wage guarantees:

              https://pluralistic.net/2020/10/14/final_ver2/#prop-22

              6/

              Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
              Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
              Cory Doctorow
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              When Toronto grappled with the brutal effect gig-work taxis have on the city's world-beatingly bad traffic, Uber promised to pay its drivers "120% of the minimum wage," which would come out to $21.12 per hour. However, the *real* wage Uber was proposing to pay its drivers came out to about *$2.50* per hour:

              https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/29/geometry-hates-uber/#toronto-the-gullible

              How to explain the difference? Well, Uber - and its gig-work competitors - only pay drivers while they have a passenger - or an item - in the car.

              7/

              Cory DoctorowP Kevin Karhan :verified:K 2 Replies Last reply
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              • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                When Toronto grappled with the brutal effect gig-work taxis have on the city's world-beatingly bad traffic, Uber promised to pay its drivers "120% of the minimum wage," which would come out to $21.12 per hour. However, the *real* wage Uber was proposing to pay its drivers came out to about *$2.50* per hour:

                https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/29/geometry-hates-uber/#toronto-the-gullible

                How to explain the difference? Well, Uber - and its gig-work competitors - only pay drivers while they have a passenger - or an item - in the car.

                7/

                Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                Cory Doctorow
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                Drivers aren't paid for time they spend waiting for a job or time they spend getting to the job. This is the majority of time that a gig driver spends working for the platform, and by excluding the majority of time a driver is on the clock, the company can claim to pay a generous wage while actually paying peanuts.

                Now, at this phase, you may be thinking that this is only fair, or at least traditional. Livery cab drivers don't get paid unless they have a fare in the cab, right?

                8/

                Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                  Drivers aren't paid for time they spend waiting for a job or time they spend getting to the job. This is the majority of time that a gig driver spends working for the platform, and by excluding the majority of time a driver is on the clock, the company can claim to pay a generous wage while actually paying peanuts.

                  Now, at this phase, you may be thinking that this is only fair, or at least traditional. Livery cab drivers don't get paid unless they have a fare in the cab, right?

                  8/

                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                  Cory Doctorow
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  That's true, but livery cab drivers have lots of ways to influence that number. They can shrewdly choose a good spot to cruise. They can give their cellphone numbers to riders they've established a rapport with in order to win advance bookings. In small towns with just a few drivers - or in cities where drivers are in a co-op - they can spend some of their earnings to advertise the taxi company. Livery drivers can offer discounts to riders going a long way.

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                  Cory DoctorowP JonathanJ 2 Replies Last reply
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                  • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                    That's true, but livery cab drivers have lots of ways to influence that number. They can shrewdly choose a good spot to cruise. They can give their cellphone numbers to riders they've established a rapport with in order to win advance bookings. In small towns with just a few drivers - or in cities where drivers are in a co-op - they can spend some of their earnings to advertise the taxi company. Livery drivers can offer discounts to riders going a long way.

                    9/

                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Cory Doctorow
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    It's a tough job, but it's one in which workers have some *agency*.

                    Contrast that with driving for Uber: Uber decides which drivers get to even see a job. Uber decides how to market its services. Uber gets to set fares, on a per-passenger basis, meaning that it might choose to scare some passengers off of a few of their rides with high prices, in a bid to psychologically nudge that passenger into accepting higher fares overall.

                    10/

                    Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                      It's a tough job, but it's one in which workers have some *agency*.

                      Contrast that with driving for Uber: Uber decides which drivers get to even see a job. Uber decides how to market its services. Uber gets to set fares, on a per-passenger basis, meaning that it might choose to scare some passengers off of a few of their rides with high prices, in a bid to psychologically nudge that passenger into accepting higher fares overall.

                      10/

                      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                      Cory Doctorow
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      At the same time, Uber is reliant on a minimum pool of drivers cruising the streets, on the clock but off the payroll. If riders had to wait 45 minutes to get an Uber, they'd make other arrangements. If it happened too often, they'd delete the app. So Uber can't survive without those cruising, unpaid drivers, who provide the capacity that make the company commercially viable.

                      11/

                      Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                        At the same time, Uber is reliant on a minimum pool of drivers cruising the streets, on the clock but off the payroll. If riders had to wait 45 minutes to get an Uber, they'd make other arrangements. If it happened too often, they'd delete the app. So Uber can't survive without those cruising, unpaid drivers, who provide the capacity that make the company commercially viable.

                        11/

                        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                        Cory Doctorow
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        What's more, livery cab drivers aren't the only comparators for gig-work platforms. Many gig workers deliver food, meaning that we should compare them to, say, pizza delivery drivers. These drivers aren't just paid when they have a pizza in the car and they're driving to a customer's home. They're paid from the moment they clock onto their shift to the moment they clock off (plus tips).

                        12/

                        Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                          What's more, livery cab drivers aren't the only comparators for gig-work platforms. Many gig workers deliver food, meaning that we should compare them to, say, pizza delivery drivers. These drivers aren't just paid when they have a pizza in the car and they're driving to a customer's home. They're paid from the moment they clock onto their shift to the moment they clock off (plus tips).

                          12/

                          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                          Cory Doctorow
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          Now, obviously, this is more expensive for employers, but the Uber Eats arrangement - in which drivers are only paid when they've got a pizza in the car and they're en route to a customer - doesn't eliminate that expense. When a gig delivery company takes away the pay that drivers used to get while waiting for a pizza, they're shifting this expense from employers to workers:

                          https://pluralistic.net/2025/08/20/billionaireism/#surveillance-infantalism

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                          Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                            Now, obviously, this is more expensive for employers, but the Uber Eats arrangement - in which drivers are only paid when they've got a pizza in the car and they're en route to a customer - doesn't eliminate that expense. When a gig delivery company takes away the pay that drivers used to get while waiting for a pizza, they're shifting this expense from employers to workers:

                            https://pluralistic.net/2025/08/20/billionaireism/#surveillance-infantalism

                            13/

                            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                            Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                            Cory Doctorow
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            The fact that Uber can manipulate the concept of a minimum wage in order to claim to pay $21.12/hour to drivers who are making $2.50 per hour creates all kinds of policy distortions.

                            Take Seattle: in 2024, the city implemented a program called "PayUp" that sets a "minimum wage" for drivers, but it's not a real minimum wage. It's a minimum payment for every ride or delivery.

                            14/

                            Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                              I'm talking about how gig-work platforms define workers' wages in the first place. This is a very salient definition in public policy debates. Gig platforms facing regulation or investigation routinely claim that their workers are paid sky-high wages. During the debate over California's Prop 22 (in which Uber and Lyft spent more than $225m to formalize worker misclassification), gig companies agreed to all kinds of reasonable-sounding wage guarantees:

                              https://pluralistic.net/2020/10/14/final_ver2/#prop-22

                              6/

                              Kevin Karhan :verified:K This user is from outside of this forum
                              Kevin Karhan :verified:K This user is from outside of this forum
                              Kevin Karhan :verified:
                              wrote last edited by
                              #15

                              @pluralistic granted, anyone who honestly.worked any #GigWork will tell you that it sucks ass!

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                              • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                The fact that Uber can manipulate the concept of a minimum wage in order to claim to pay $21.12/hour to drivers who are making $2.50 per hour creates all kinds of policy distortions.

                                Take Seattle: in 2024, the city implemented a program called "PayUp" that sets a "minimum wage" for drivers, but it's not a real minimum wage. It's a minimum payment for every ride or delivery.

                                14/

                                Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                Cory Doctorow
                                wrote last edited by
                                #16

                                A new National Bureau of Economic Research paper analyzes the program and concludes that it hasn't increased drivers' pay at all:

                                https://www.nber.org/papers/w34545

                                To which we might say, "Duh." Cranking up the sum paid for a small fraction of the work you do for a company will have very little impact on the overall wage you receive from the company.

                                15/

                                Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                  A new National Bureau of Economic Research paper analyzes the program and concludes that it hasn't increased drivers' pay at all:

                                  https://www.nber.org/papers/w34545

                                  To which we might say, "Duh." Cranking up the sum paid for a small fraction of the work you do for a company will have very little impact on the overall wage you receive from the company.

                                  15/

                                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Cory Doctorow
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #17

                                  However, there *is* an interesting wrinkle in this paper's conclusions. Drivers aren't earning *less* under this system, either. So they're getting paid more for every delivery, but they're not adding more deliveries to their day. In other words, they're doing less work and then clocking off:

                                  https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/02/minimum-wages-for-gig-work-cant-work.html

                                  16/

                                  Cory DoctorowP Kevin Karhan :verified:K 2 Replies Last reply
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                                  • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                    However, there *is* an interesting wrinkle in this paper's conclusions. Drivers aren't earning *less* under this system, either. So they're getting paid more for every delivery, but they're not adding more deliveries to their day. In other words, they're doing less work and then clocking off:

                                    https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/02/minimum-wages-for-gig-work-cant-work.html

                                    16/

                                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Cory Doctorow
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #18

                                    A neoclassical economist (someone who has experienced a specific form of neurological injury that makes you incapable of perceiving or reasoning about power) would say that this means that the drivers only desire to earn the sums they were earning before the "minimum wage" and so the program hasn't made a difference to their lives.

                                    17/

                                    Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                      A neoclassical economist (someone who has experienced a specific form of neurological injury that makes you incapable of perceiving or reasoning about power) would say that this means that the drivers only desire to earn the sums they were earning before the "minimum wage" and so the program hasn't made a difference to their lives.

                                      17/

                                      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Cory Doctorow
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Anyone else looks at this situation and understands drivers only did this shitty job out of desperation. They had a sum they *needed* every month in order to pay the rent or the grocery bill. They have lots of needs besides those that they would like to fulfill, but not under the shitty gig-work app conditions. The only reason they tolerate a shitty app as their shitty boss at all is that they are desperate, and that desperation gives gig companies power over their workers.

                                      18/

                                      Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                        Anyone else looks at this situation and understands drivers only did this shitty job out of desperation. They had a sum they *needed* every month in order to pay the rent or the grocery bill. They have lots of needs besides those that they would like to fulfill, but not under the shitty gig-work app conditions. The only reason they tolerate a shitty app as their shitty boss at all is that they are desperate, and that desperation gives gig companies power over their workers.

                                        18/

                                        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Cory Doctorow
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #20

                                        In other words, Seattle's PayUp "minimum wage" has shifted some of the expense associated with operating a gig platform from workers back onto their bosses. With fewer drivers available on the app, waiting times for customers will necessarily go up. Some of those customers will take the bus, or get a livery cab, or defrost a pizza, or walk to the corner cafe.

                                        19/

                                        Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                                          In other words, Seattle's PayUp "minimum wage" has shifted some of the expense associated with operating a gig platform from workers back onto their bosses. With fewer drivers available on the app, waiting times for customers will necessarily go up. Some of those customers will take the bus, or get a livery cab, or defrost a pizza, or walk to the corner cafe.

                                          19/

                                          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Cory Doctorow
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #21

                                          For the gig platforms to win those customers back, they will have to reduce waiting times, and the most reliable way to do that is to increase the wages paid to their workers.

                                          So PayUp isn't a wash - it has changed the distributional outcome of the gig-work economy in Seattle.

                                          20/

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