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  3. I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

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llmprogramming
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  • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

    I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

    It is not kind. You may well be insulted by it. If you are... then you really should question yourself.

    https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/selfish-ai

    #AI #LLM #Programming

    Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
    Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
    Larry Garfield
    wrote last edited by
    #12

    Apparently this post was just boosted by @robpike. Yes, that Rob Pike.

    I... guess it's found an audience.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

      @LilPecan @JustinMac84 @krig Quoting the article: "But, at this point, it's become obvious that I have to either compromise on that, or leave tech entirely. And every time I think about that, I get angry."

      Leaving my field and starting over from scratch while I have a small child at home is... a large ask.

      Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
      Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
      Piggleston Pecanpants
      wrote last edited by
      #13

      @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig Yes. I had a job that was ethically questionable and faced the same dilemma. All I'm suggesting is you might use part of your nights and weekends to learn something different, something AI resistant, to have as a backup when this all falls apart. Also, by being productive in an unfamiliar arena, it may distract you and lessen your angst. You'll be doing something positive to educate yourself instead of just letting guilt wash over you.

      Larry GarfieldC MarianneN 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • Piggleston PecanpantsL Piggleston Pecanpants

        @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig Yes. I had a job that was ethically questionable and faced the same dilemma. All I'm suggesting is you might use part of your nights and weekends to learn something different, something AI resistant, to have as a backup when this all falls apart. Also, by being productive in an unfamiliar arena, it may distract you and lessen your angst. You'll be doing something positive to educate yourself instead of just letting guilt wash over you.

        Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
        Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
        Larry Garfield
        wrote last edited by
        #14

        @LilPecan @JustinMac84 @krig You seem to be under the impression that the hammer hasn't come down yet. I'm currently unemployed, at a super-senior level. The hammer is here.

        *Nothing* is AI resistant that pays worth a damn.

        Piggleston PecanpantsL 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

          @LilPecan @JustinMac84 @krig You seem to be under the impression that the hammer hasn't come down yet. I'm currently unemployed, at a super-senior level. The hammer is here.

          *Nothing* is AI resistant that pays worth a damn.

          Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
          Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
          Piggleston Pecanpants
          wrote last edited by
          #15

          @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig And that's also a problem related to the big picture of why this is happening: greed. If people would rather buy cheap crap from exploited, impoverished countries then your wood workers, leather smiths, jewelers and other manual artists, that can't be replaced by AI, can't afford to survive. So kiss artistry and beauty goodbye. That's the world silicone valley wanted and got.

          Larry GarfieldC 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Piggleston PecanpantsL Piggleston Pecanpants

            @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig And that's also a problem related to the big picture of why this is happening: greed. If people would rather buy cheap crap from exploited, impoverished countries then your wood workers, leather smiths, jewelers and other manual artists, that can't be replaced by AI, can't afford to survive. So kiss artistry and beauty goodbye. That's the world silicone valley wanted and got.

            Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
            Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
            Larry Garfield
            wrote last edited by
            #16

            @LilPecan @JustinMac84 @krig As a hobbyist woodworker, bladesmith, and leatherworker, I can confirm.

            Some of the absolute best bladesmiths on the planet, that make absolutely gorgeous works of art, make good money but less than I made in my last 2 jobs as an engineer. And I am not as good an engineer as they are blade artists.

            Piggleston PecanpantsL 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

              @LilPecan @JustinMac84 @krig As a hobbyist woodworker, bladesmith, and leatherworker, I can confirm.

              Some of the absolute best bladesmiths on the planet, that make absolutely gorgeous works of art, make good money but less than I made in my last 2 jobs as an engineer. And I am not as good an engineer as they are blade artists.

              Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
              Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
              Piggleston Pecanpants
              wrote last edited by
              #17

              @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig See? So you're not a one trick pony. Those are all skills that hold great value for when the end of the world arrives. When the manufacturing plants shut down because there is no more water and the world is on fire, you'll last longer than many.

              MarianneN 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

                I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

                It is not kind. You may well be insulted by it. If you are... then you really should question yourself.

                https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/selfish-ai

                #AI #LLM #Programming

                Ayush Agarwal (आयुष अग्रवाल)A This user is from outside of this forum
                Ayush Agarwal (आयुष अग्रवाल)A This user is from outside of this forum
                Ayush Agarwal (आयुष अग्रवाल)
                wrote last edited by
                #18

                @Crell I posted something similar yesterday and read your blog post a few moments ago. I'm glad to see someone else recognising the sheer apathy from people using LLMs who apparently "cared" about FOSS, which seems like horseshit at this point.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • MarianneN Marianne shared this topic
                • Piggleston PecanpantsL Piggleston Pecanpants

                  @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig Yes. I had a job that was ethically questionable and faced the same dilemma. All I'm suggesting is you might use part of your nights and weekends to learn something different, something AI resistant, to have as a backup when this all falls apart. Also, by being productive in an unfamiliar arena, it may distract you and lessen your angst. You'll be doing something positive to educate yourself instead of just letting guilt wash over you.

                  MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                  MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                  Marianne
                  wrote last edited by
                  #19

                  @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig @LilPecan what do you think is "AI-resistant" right now? Genuine q

                  J 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Piggleston PecanpantsL Piggleston Pecanpants

                    @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig See? So you're not a one trick pony. Those are all skills that hold great value for when the end of the world arrives. When the manufacturing plants shut down because there is no more water and the world is on fire, you'll last longer than many.

                    MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                    MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                    Marianne
                    wrote last edited by
                    #20

                    @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig @LilPecan what do we do in this meantime before the world ends? What do we do to live every day that isn't being corroded by AI slop and boosters?

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • MarianneN Marianne

                      @Crell @JustinMac84 @krig @LilPecan what do you think is "AI-resistant" right now? Genuine q

                      J This user is from outside of this forum
                      J This user is from outside of this forum
                      Justin Macleod
                      wrote last edited by
                      #21

                      @noodlemaz @Crell @krig @LilPecan Manual labour, hospitality that is face to face. Anything that needs a pair of hands and can't be done remotely by a bot pretending to be a person.

                      MarianneN 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • J Justin Macleod

                        @noodlemaz @Crell @krig @LilPecan Manual labour, hospitality that is face to face. Anything that needs a pair of hands and can't be done remotely by a bot pretending to be a person.

                        MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                        MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                        Marianne
                        wrote last edited by
                        #22

                        @Crell @krig @LilPecan @JustinMac84 ah yes so many jobs going in those areas
                        Hospitality isn't suffering or anything

                        Sure my PhD will come in handy there too

                        Piggleston PecanpantsL 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

                          I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

                          It is not kind. You may well be insulted by it. If you are... then you really should question yourself.

                          https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/selfish-ai

                          #AI #LLM #Programming

                          Avi Rappoport (avirr)A This user is from outside of this forum
                          Avi Rappoport (avirr)A This user is from outside of this forum
                          Avi Rappoport (avirr)
                          wrote last edited by
                          #23

                          @Crell AI ate my job

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

                            I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

                            It is not kind. You may well be insulted by it. If you are... then you really should question yourself.

                            https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/selfish-ai

                            #AI #LLM #Programming

                            nebulosN This user is from outside of this forum
                            nebulosN This user is from outside of this forum
                            nebulos
                            wrote last edited by
                            #24

                            @Crell I found it interesting that you had a section on collective action - I was expecting you to talk about collective action as a solution where individual boycotts are insufficient. There are a lot of people who do see the downsides of AI - they just happen to not be the people with the power to make decisions - but collective action is how you change that.

                            Larry GarfieldC 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • nebulosN nebulos

                              @Crell I found it interesting that you had a section on collective action - I was expecting you to talk about collective action as a solution where individual boycotts are insufficient. There are a lot of people who do see the downsides of AI - they just happen to not be the people with the power to make decisions - but collective action is how you change that.

                              Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                              Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                              Larry Garfield
                              wrote last edited by
                              #25

                              @nebulos I wasn't really focused on solutions. More cathartic venting.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • MarianneN Marianne

                                @Crell @krig @LilPecan @JustinMac84 ah yes so many jobs going in those areas
                                Hospitality isn't suffering or anything

                                Sure my PhD will come in handy there too

                                Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
                                Piggleston PecanpantsL This user is from outside of this forum
                                Piggleston Pecanpants
                                wrote last edited by
                                #26

                                @noodlemaz @Crell @krig @JustinMac84 You wouldn't be the first bartender with a PhD. If you can get into a fine dining establishment you will be surprised at what you can earn.

                                MarianneN 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Piggleston PecanpantsL Piggleston Pecanpants

                                  @noodlemaz @Crell @krig @JustinMac84 You wouldn't be the first bartender with a PhD. If you can get into a fine dining establishment you will be surprised at what you can earn.

                                  MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                                  MarianneN This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Marianne
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #27

                                  @Crell @krig @JustinMac84 @LilPecan yeah I'll stick with my science writing and fundraising until the sloppers force me out.
                                  Or the charity does, more 'downsizing staff to maximise funds available' while there's new C-suite and microslop licenses, cool stuff.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

                                    I may regret this at some point, but I felt the need to put down in writing how I feel about this moment in the tech industry.

                                    It is not kind. You may well be insulted by it. If you are... then you really should question yourself.

                                    https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/selfish-ai

                                    #AI #LLM #Programming

                                    Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Avery 🏳️‍⚧️
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #28

                                    @Crell kinda sounds like your problem is with capitalism and less with the AI tool. Also why does the code that AI puts out have to be committed without user intervention. I sense an implication that nobody reviews this code. Developers can still develop all they want and still have it help them. Need a flask server? Need a docs page? Nobody should be shipping code written by an AI tool unless it's been reviewed first. If devs are shipping shitty code it's still their fault, not the AI tool's

                                    Larry GarfieldC 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A Avery 🏳️‍⚧️

                                      @Crell kinda sounds like your problem is with capitalism and less with the AI tool. Also why does the code that AI puts out have to be committed without user intervention. I sense an implication that nobody reviews this code. Developers can still develop all they want and still have it help them. Need a flask server? Need a docs page? Nobody should be shipping code written by an AI tool unless it's been reviewed first. If devs are shipping shitty code it's still their fault, not the AI tool's

                                      Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Larry Garfield
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #29

                                      @av3ry3ris Lovely thought. So our job is not code writing but debugging slop written by Grand Theft Autocomplete? Also, not the point I was making. Review or not, it drill burns the same electricity.

                                      As for capitalism, if capitalism means we must think short-term individual with no regard for societal cost, then yes, fuck capitalism.

                                      Capitalism is the primary reason people become socialists.

                                      Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Larry GarfieldC Larry Garfield

                                        @av3ry3ris Lovely thought. So our job is not code writing but debugging slop written by Grand Theft Autocomplete? Also, not the point I was making. Review or not, it drill burns the same electricity.

                                        As for capitalism, if capitalism means we must think short-term individual with no regard for societal cost, then yes, fuck capitalism.

                                        Capitalism is the primary reason people become socialists.

                                        Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Avery 🏳️‍⚧️
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #30

                                        @Crell I would rather spend time debugging mostly working code than reading nerds argue on stackoverflow for hours only to find the solution that worked for everyone is deprecated on my version. No part of that experience is fun or feels rewarding. And not being able to figure something out has made me quit on projects that I can bridge that gap between now.

                                        Larry GarfieldC 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A Avery 🏳️‍⚧️

                                          @Crell I would rather spend time debugging mostly working code than reading nerds argue on stackoverflow for hours only to find the solution that worked for everyone is deprecated on my version. No part of that experience is fun or feels rewarding. And not being able to figure something out has made me quit on projects that I can bridge that gap between now.

                                          Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Larry GarfieldC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Larry Garfield
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #31

                                          @av3ry3ris And how many degrees climate increase is that worth to you?

                                          How much mass copyright infringement is that worth to you?

                                          Avery 🏳️‍⚧️A 1 Reply Last reply
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