PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
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@aral Your position implies that the police is an enemy and that states shouldn't have any kind of law enforcement called "police". But can you pledge that you will never, ever call the police, nor expect any police intervention or involvement, no matter what?
States are human super-organisms and their existence is both necessary and unavoidable in our world. And states need a police force to be effective. @element
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Imagine regaining effective, broadly inclusive democratic control where it was lost (or winning it where it was absent). Then the problem of slave-patrol mentality will be easy to solve. Otherwise, you will end up recreating the same thing under a new name. It's not the name that is the issue, it's the shape of the institution within societies that don't adhere to democratic standards.
@mpsi
Well then until society can be made to adhere to democratic standards, we shouldn’t support the mechanisms that allow it to suppress resistance and dissent. -
@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you know that there are many different countries on this planet and some of them function much better than the US?
@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
A rapidly shrinking number given the realization that so many of them are effectively vassal states to America. -
@davidgerard I'd be prepared to pay for it as a service.so that I don't have to run it myself, which I wouldn't know ho to anyways. I can't believe it's not possible to make it private, even with payments. Not that I 'd know anything about it, but just looking at all the solutions that people have found, like linux on apple silikon chips or countless others.
@Tamtam
What exactly do you mean by "private"?
And, service needs to run *somewhere*. And "just buy servers and rent datacenter space" leads do "and who goes in to replace disks and RAM when they fail? And who pays those people?"
And, depending on your needs etc, I'm quite intrigued by Zulip, though it's a specific niche. And yes, they can host it for you. But then they have access to servers.
@davidgerard -
@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you know that there are many different countries on this planet and some of them function much better than the US?
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@MisuseCase@twit.social @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @precariousmind@neopaquita.es well signal is not something I recommend. After all they use fascist hardware.
@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind What kind of hardware are you posting from?
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PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.
@element https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
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@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you have any personal experience of living in other countries than the US and encountering police violence?
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@mpsi
Well then until society can be made to adhere to democratic standards, we shouldn’t support the mechanisms that allow it to suppress resistance and dissent.@freediverx Fight for that, this is the only way.
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@sotolf @LukefromDC @aral @element
Is that an intentional choice? Could they change that? -
@freediverx @aral @element In which countries, exactly?
For example, there is police in China, too. And they certainly don't serve "capital". -
@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you have any personal experience of living in other countries than the US and encountering police violence?
@mpsi @aral @element Ask people in France, where the cops are infamously brutal.
Or the UK, where they’ve been harassing Palestine Action protesters.
Or Canada, where the RCMP brutalizes First Nations people.
Your ignorance about this kind of thing is a YOU problem. Don’t make it out like it it’s a ME problem or the OP’s problem.
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@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
A rapidly shrinking number given the realization that so many of them are effectively vassal states to America.@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element The position of the US is rapidly declining, and this is a chance for "vassals" to become actually independent.
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@freediverx @aral @element In which countries, exactly?
For example, there is police in China, too. And they certainly don't serve "capital". -
@aral @precariousmind @element Hahaha. So next time I see someone putting down Signal and boosting Matrix, I can say “signal isn’t run by fascist bootlickers.”
@MisuseCase @davidgerard @aral @precariousmind @element Well. Just for the sake of accuracy, matrix foundation includes people from element. They have strong ties. But matrix foundation is at least supposed to be neutral and mostly about the protocol. But it is hard to avoid element in the matrix ecosystem as of yet anyways. So I can see your point.
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@sotolf @LukefromDC @aral @element
I’ve followed them for many years and their motivations, at least, seem to be sound. -
@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element The position of the US is rapidly declining, and this is a chance for "vassals" to become actually independent.
@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
One would hope, but I’ve seen little evidence of that so far. Europe is still more scared of China than the US and I think that’s a critical mistake. -
@mpsi @aral @element Ask people in France, where the cops are infamously brutal.
Or the UK, where they’ve been harassing Palestine Action protesters.
Or Canada, where the RCMP brutalizes First Nations people.
Your ignorance about this kind of thing is a YOU problem. Don’t make it out like it it’s a ME problem or the OP’s problem.
@MisuseCase @aral @element Each of these situations is an individual case and it should be solved as such by citizens of the relevant countries. This is how democracy is supposed to work.
The US urgently needs to solve its own crisis. Do that, abolish the police if you think it is a good solution, but please don't interpolate your situation to the rest of the world constantly.
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@MisuseCase @aral @element Each of these situations is an individual case and it should be solved as such by citizens of the relevant countries. This is how democracy is supposed to work.
The US urgently needs to solve its own crisis. Do that, abolish the police if you think it is a good solution, but please don't interpolate your situation to the rest of the world constantly.
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@freediverx @aral @element Police protects capital in countries where the capital equals political power. Can we agree on that?
