Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Darkly)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo
  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. "Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets.

"Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Uncategorized
35 Posts 7 Posters 1 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

    But if you want to *really* move the needle on gig workers' wages, the answer is simple: pay workers for *all* the hours they put in for their bosses, not just the ones where bosses decide they deserve to get paid for.

    22/

    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
    Cory Doctorow
    wrote last edited by
    #25

    Image:
    Tobias "ToMar" Maier (modified)
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balaclava_3_hole_black.jpg

    CC BY-SA 3.0
    https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en

    --

    Jon Feinstein (modified)
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonfeinstein/186791934/

    CC BY 2.0
    https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en

    eof/

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

      However, there *is* an interesting wrinkle in this paper's conclusions. Drivers aren't earning *less* under this system, either. So they're getting paid more for every delivery, but they're not adding more deliveries to their day. In other words, they're doing less work and then clocking off:

      https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/02/minimum-wages-for-gig-work-cant-work.html

      16/

      Kevin Karhan :verified:K This user is from outside of this forum
      Kevin Karhan :verified:K This user is from outside of this forum
      Kevin Karhan :verified:
      wrote last edited by
      #26

      @pluralistic it's a crime that they don't get paid minimum wage whilst being clocked in…

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

        "Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets. For example, if you want to work, but can't find a job, then the minimum wage you'll get is zero:

        https://web.archive.org/web/20200625043843/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2020-06-24/forget-ubi-says-an-economist-its-time-for-universal-basic-jobs

        --

        If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

        https://pluralistic.net/2026/02/17/no-piecework/#no-justice

        1/

        MolenaarM This user is from outside of this forum
        MolenaarM This user is from outside of this forum
        Molenaar
        wrote last edited by
        #27

        @pluralistic "A neoclassical economist (someone who has experienced a specific form of neurological injury that makes you incapable of perceiving or reasoning about power)"

        That is one of the best descriptions I read in a long while.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

          That's why politicians like Avi Lewis (who is running for leader of Canada's New Democratic Party) has call for a jobs guarantee: a government guarantee of a good job at a socially inclusive wage for everyone who wants one:

          https://lewisforleader.ca/ideas/dignified-work-full-plan

          (Disclosure: I have advised the Lewis campaign on technical issues and I have endorsed his candidacy.)

          2/

          lostprototypeL This user is from outside of this forum
          lostprototypeL This user is from outside of this forum
          lostprototype
          wrote last edited by
          #28

          @pluralistic - Wish I could become an advisor to my local MLAs. I literally have tried, but found no purchase.

          They're too stuck in growth economics and trying to coopt the regional conservative power structure as it is lying dormant between the election cycles.

          Despite being NDP, they are failing to make good on the support people showed them. They seem more interested in settling in as technocrats than actually effecting socialism.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

            "Minimum wage" is one of those odd concepts that *seems* to have an intuitive definition, but the harder you think about it, the more complicated it gets. For example, if you want to work, but can't find a job, then the minimum wage you'll get is zero:

            https://web.archive.org/web/20200625043843/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2020-06-24/forget-ubi-says-an-economist-its-time-for-universal-basic-jobs

            --

            If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

            https://pluralistic.net/2026/02/17/no-piecework/#no-justice

            1/

            John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺J This user is from outside of this forum
            John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺J This user is from outside of this forum
            John Carlsen 🇺🇸🇳🇱🇪🇺
            wrote last edited by
            #29

            @pluralistic

            This link worked better for me:

            "Forget UBI, says an economist: It’s time for universal basic jobs

            Economist Pavlina R. Tcherneva, author of 'The Case for a Job Guarantee.'"

            By Cory Doctorow
            June 24, 2020 7 AM

            Link around paywall to Los Angeles Times:

            https://archive.ph/Ar5hg

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

              Take gig work: the rise of Uber and its successors created an ever-expanding class of workers, misclassified as independent contractors by employers, seeking to evade unionization, benefits and liability. It's a weird kind of "independent contractor" who gets punished for saying no to lowball offers, has to decorate their personal clothes and/or cars in their "client's" livery, and who has every movement scripted by an app controlled by their "client":

              https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/02/upward-redistribution/

              4/

              Alan T Perry 🇨🇦A This user is from outside of this forum
              Alan T Perry 🇨🇦A This user is from outside of this forum
              Alan T Perry 🇨🇦
              wrote last edited by
              #30

              @pluralistic

              I've long said that UBER is an acronym for Unethical Business Evading Responsibility.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                That's true, but livery cab drivers have lots of ways to influence that number. They can shrewdly choose a good spot to cruise. They can give their cellphone numbers to riders they've established a rapport with in order to win advance bookings. In small towns with just a few drivers - or in cities where drivers are in a co-op - they can spend some of their earnings to advertise the taxi company. Livery drivers can offer discounts to riders going a long way.

                9/

                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                Jonathan
                wrote last edited by
                #31

                @pluralistic In fairness, I'd suggest there's not much daylight between the two Cab driving was also institutionalized wage-stealing. Really just last generation Uber without the GPS. I mean, renting the cab medallion was a thing. And the cab. Let's see if Uber rolls out car rentals at some point (if they haven't already). Or makes their platform a subscription model for drivers.

                Cory DoctorowP 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • JonathanJ Jonathan

                  @pluralistic In fairness, I'd suggest there's not much daylight between the two Cab driving was also institutionalized wage-stealing. Really just last generation Uber without the GPS. I mean, renting the cab medallion was a thing. And the cab. Let's see if Uber rolls out car rentals at some point (if they haven't already). Or makes their platform a subscription model for drivers.

                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                  Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                  Cory Doctorow
                  wrote last edited by
                  #32

                  @jmcrookston Not every cab network featured or even tolerated medallion rental. Many drivers owned the car and the medallion, and many cab companies were organized as co-ops.

                  Cory DoctorowP JonathanJ 2 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                    @jmcrookston Not every cab network featured or even tolerated medallion rental. Many drivers owned the car and the medallion, and many cab companies were organized as co-ops.

                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Cory DoctorowP This user is from outside of this forum
                    Cory Doctorow
                    wrote last edited by
                    #33

                    @jmcrookston Cabs in Ottawa are all unionized.

                    JonathanJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                      @jmcrookston Cabs in Ottawa are all unionized.

                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      Jonathan
                      wrote last edited by
                      #34

                      @pluralistic yes, I do recall this now. Are they unionized in all places though? I understood they carried widely. Not all cab companies would behave the same.

                      Hopefully we will see the same with Uber. Didn't it lose a court case recently about organizing? Or benefits?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Cory DoctorowP Cory Doctorow

                        @jmcrookston Not every cab network featured or even tolerated medallion rental. Many drivers owned the car and the medallion, and many cab companies were organized as co-ops.

                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        JonathanJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jonathan
                        wrote last edited by
                        #35

                        @pluralistic yes, not all were equal

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • R ActivityRelay shared this topic
                        Reply
                        • Reply as topic
                        Log in to reply
                        • Oldest to Newest
                        • Newest to Oldest
                        • Most Votes


                        • Login

                        • Don't have an account? Register

                        • Login or register to search.
                        Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                        • First post
                          Last post
                        0
                        • Categories
                        • Recent
                        • Tags
                        • Popular
                        • World
                        • Users
                        • Groups