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  3. Police and military uniforms have converged on a “special forces” look.

Police and military uniforms have converged on a “special forces” look.

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  • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

    @cross
    You definitely should listen to “Gear.”

    Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
    Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
    Paul Cantrell
    wrote last edited by
    #30

    @cross
    (And I should add, in case you’re leery of it: Gear is not at all some sort of breathless anti-military “scandal scandal scandal!!” hit piece you might expect, utterly the opposite. It paints a rich picture of military life that civilians — in the correct sense you laid out! — frequently do not know or understand. It’s full of military history and military life and military voices, and lays out all kinds of nuanced interrelationships between the fashion industry, the outdoor industry, and the military with a critical eye that that’s there to build understanding. Good stuff.)

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • S ShadSterling

      @colo_lee @inthehands hm. There may be a distinction worth making about these guys cosplaying as part of pretending to be what they aren’t, and people in other contexts cosplaying as an expression of who they are. But the word “cosplay” doesn’t make that distinction

      Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
      Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
      Paul Cantrell
      wrote last edited by
      #31

      @ShadSterling @colo_lee
      I don’t think that distinction applies. They •are• expressing who they are: they are assembling the costumes of violence and of fascism. They sullying the beautiful practice of cosplay by using it to express something horrible. But the expression is •genuine•. If anything, I wish more people had taken it seriously sooner: through their fashion choices, through the self-expression of costume, they are sincerely telling us who they are.

      S 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

        I’ve had this contingent of the language police show up in my replies a few times now over the word “cosplay,” and look…

        OK, I get it, I get the instinct to say “Don’t drag me into this!” and I applaud the effort to push fascists out of communities, yes to all that…

        …and also we need to recognize that what ICE is doing absolutely •is• cosplay. The word means “costume play.” It refers to assembling and wearing costumes that are not necessarily functional, but show affinity for a particular subculture by reproducing characters from that subculture’s popular narratives.

        ICE are cosplaying Call of Duty. That is an accurate description of what’s happening. (Listen to “Gear.”)

        I make software and I make music. I don’t think either one of those things •should• be about violence. I don’t •want• them to be about violence. But both are used in the service of violence, like it or not. I shout the violence out whenever it shows up. But would be ridiculous for me to point at what Palantir does and say “That’s not software!” Unfortunately, it •is• software. To deny that would be beyond self-defeating; it would be irresponsible.

        ICE •is• doing cosplay, and we hate it. It’s an insult to the cosplay subculture. It is an insult to the whole of humanity. Fascism creeps into all of our spheres, into every beloved craft and community, and the response is never to pretend it’s not there. The response is to drive it out.

        @wildrikku
        https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@wildrikku/115956545807535535

        Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
        Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
        Paul Cantrell
        wrote last edited by
        #32

        This is the SNL sketch I mentioned in the first post:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8Oury0a80

        Right now, I’m finding this kind of “cringe-laugh” material therapeutic. To protect my own mental health, I’m having to pace my grieving — which sounds so strange, but that’s what’s going on. Laughter and critical analysis both are functioning as a kind of escape valve for me right now. So please, as someone from Minneapolis, please grieve and rage, yes, and also please give yourself permission to laugh.

        Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A sonjaE 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • Dan CrossC Dan Cross

          @inthehands as a veteran, I find the appropriation of military motifs by civil law enforcement extremely offensive, but also incredibly dangerous.

          A particularly egregious example, that I wish people would address more often, is the use of the word "civilians" to describe people that are not whatever strain of police is using the term. "Civilians" refers to people within the general civil populace, as opposed to the military. The police (in all their various forms) are members of the civil society, and as such, civilians themselves.

          Words have meaning, and those meanings matter. When we allow these subtle shifts in language, we normalize the militarization of police forces nationwide, but more than that, we reinforce the self-image of the police as separate from the rest of civil society. And history shows that when people view themselves as apart from civil society, they often see themselves unbeholden to the norms and ethics that govern civil society.

          One can draw a pretty straight line from that to these guys cosplaying soldier, wearing full tactical gear, riding on MRAPs and HMMWVs, assault rifles on their shoulders like the movies, belt-fed automatic weapons mounted on turrets in the background for Kristi Noem's photo-ops. We, collectively, should have never let anyone get away with normalizing this from the second it started. Yet how many articles does one read in the press where no one ever bothers challenging a cop when they refer to the people that they've supposedly sworn to protect and serve as "civilians", as if they, themselves, are not?

          Michael BaconM This user is from outside of this forum
          Michael BaconM This user is from outside of this forum
          Michael Bacon
          wrote last edited by
          #33

          @cross @inthehands

          There's also the problem of LE wanting military equipment and military duds but not military justice.

          One of the reasons I'd like to see CBP disbanded, the border patrol duty given to an expanded Coast Guard, and that returned to the Pentagon is that my understanding is that UCMJ would cover so many of these crimes and abuses.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • Dan CrossC Dan Cross

            @inthehands as a veteran, I find the appropriation of military motifs by civil law enforcement extremely offensive, but also incredibly dangerous.

            A particularly egregious example, that I wish people would address more often, is the use of the word "civilians" to describe people that are not whatever strain of police is using the term. "Civilians" refers to people within the general civil populace, as opposed to the military. The police (in all their various forms) are members of the civil society, and as such, civilians themselves.

            Words have meaning, and those meanings matter. When we allow these subtle shifts in language, we normalize the militarization of police forces nationwide, but more than that, we reinforce the self-image of the police as separate from the rest of civil society. And history shows that when people view themselves as apart from civil society, they often see themselves unbeholden to the norms and ethics that govern civil society.

            One can draw a pretty straight line from that to these guys cosplaying soldier, wearing full tactical gear, riding on MRAPs and HMMWVs, assault rifles on their shoulders like the movies, belt-fed automatic weapons mounted on turrets in the background for Kristi Noem's photo-ops. We, collectively, should have never let anyone get away with normalizing this from the second it started. Yet how many articles does one read in the press where no one ever bothers challenging a cop when they refer to the people that they've supposedly sworn to protect and serve as "civilians", as if they, themselves, are not?

            CommodoreC This user is from outside of this forum
            CommodoreC This user is from outside of this forum
            Commodore
            wrote last edited by
            #34

            @cross @inthehands in the past, one may have even called them "civil servants"

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

              RE: https://hachyderm.io/@rationaldoge/115953632587673647

              Police and military uniforms have converged on a “special forces” look. SNL mocked ICE for wearing camo: “Where did you think Minnesota is??” But that’s the •look•: camo, tactical gear. It is the look ICE officers crave: “This is so cool, like Call of Duty” one said. And now you can’t tell all the militaries and militarized police forces apart, to the point where they have to wear safety vests over camo. High-vis! Over camo! The irony.

              1/2

              NazaniN This user is from outside of this forum
              NazaniN This user is from outside of this forum
              Nazani
              wrote last edited by
              #35

              @inthehands ICE is wearing more tactical crap than Marines had at the battle of Fallujah. And probably ruining it by poor maintenance, so it can't even be passed on to active duty military. (Cops don't need it, either.)

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                This is the SNL sketch I mentioned in the first post:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8Oury0a80

                Right now, I’m finding this kind of “cringe-laugh” material therapeutic. To protect my own mental health, I’m having to pace my grieving — which sounds so strange, but that’s what’s going on. Laughter and critical analysis both are functioning as a kind of escape valve for me right now. So please, as someone from Minneapolis, please grieve and rage, yes, and also please give yourself permission to laugh.

                Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.
                wrote last edited by
                #36

                @inthehands @Wyatt_H_Knott apparently it was cut from the live show ☹️

                Wyatt H KnottW Paul CantrellI 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                  RE: https://hachyderm.io/@rationaldoge/115953632587673647

                  Police and military uniforms have converged on a “special forces” look. SNL mocked ICE for wearing camo: “Where did you think Minnesota is??” But that’s the •look•: camo, tactical gear. It is the look ICE officers crave: “This is so cool, like Call of Duty” one said. And now you can’t tell all the militaries and militarized police forces apart, to the point where they have to wear safety vests over camo. High-vis! Over camo! The irony.

                  1/2

                  Mastodon MigrationM This user is from outside of this forum
                  Mastodon MigrationM This user is from outside of this forum
                  Mastodon Migration
                  wrote last edited by
                  #37

                  @inthehands

                  Apparently they are also hanging all sorts of useless expensive "video game" paraphernalia on their weapons...

                  https://www.patreon.com/posts/ice-guys-all-of-148797536

                  Julie HughesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                    This is the SNL sketch I mentioned in the first post:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8Oury0a80

                    Right now, I’m finding this kind of “cringe-laugh” material therapeutic. To protect my own mental health, I’m having to pace my grieving — which sounds so strange, but that’s what’s going on. Laughter and critical analysis both are functioning as a kind of escape valve for me right now. So please, as someone from Minneapolis, please grieve and rage, yes, and also please give yourself permission to laugh.

                    sonjaE This user is from outside of this forum
                    sonjaE This user is from outside of this forum
                    sonja
                    wrote last edited by
                    #38

                    @inthehands i tooted this a few days ago. great stuff.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • WildRikkuW WildRikku

                      @FinchHaven @inthehands This has nothing to do with LARP or cosplay. I see this pop up every now and then in discussions revolving around ICE, but it's just wrong. Both cosplay and LARP are about fandom and crafts, not violence. Violent forces will find no support in those communities, so please stop comparing.

                      UncleRicoS This user is from outside of this forum
                      UncleRicoS This user is from outside of this forum
                      UncleRico
                      wrote last edited by
                      #39

                      @wildrikku @FinchHaven @inthehands This is really your first instinct and reaction? Maybe read the room a little.

                      Paul CantrellI 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.

                        @inthehands @Wyatt_H_Knott apparently it was cut from the live show ☹️

                        Wyatt H KnottW This user is from outside of this forum
                        Wyatt H KnottW This user is from outside of this forum
                        Wyatt H Knott
                        wrote last edited by
                        #40

                        @akamran 🤮 really loving this "everyone gets their own version of reality to suit their politcal views" programming. #FuckNBC

                        So glad I ditched my CBS stock before all the bullshit started. 2 years. Two fucking years, waiting for a buyout, and they sell it to fucking Nazis. The last independent TV station. #FuckCBS too.

                        @inthehands still glad you posted this 🤣

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.

                          @inthehands @Wyatt_H_Knott apparently it was cut from the live show ☹️

                          Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                          Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                          Paul Cantrell
                          wrote last edited by
                          #41

                          @akamran @Wyatt_H_Knott
                          Ugh. I hope somebody out there captures the video before YouTube takes it down too.

                          Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • UncleRicoS UncleRico

                            @wildrikku @FinchHaven @inthehands This is really your first instinct and reaction? Maybe read the room a little.

                            Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                            Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                            Paul Cantrell
                            wrote last edited by
                            #42

                            @shsbxheb @wildrikku @FinchHaven
                            Agreed, though per my post on the topic, I do applaud that instinct to say “The cosplay community says NO to ICE!!” That’s a good instinct. It just needs to be more productively directed.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                              @akamran @Wyatt_H_Knott
                              Ugh. I hope somebody out there captures the video before YouTube takes it down too.

                              Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.
                              wrote last edited by
                              #43

                              @inthehands @Wyatt_H_Knott I tried using New Pipe (I'm on my phone), but it didn't work. I'll bookmark it so when I get to the desktop I can try something else.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                                RE: https://hachyderm.io/@rationaldoge/115953632587673647

                                Police and military uniforms have converged on a “special forces” look. SNL mocked ICE for wearing camo: “Where did you think Minnesota is??” But that’s the •look•: camo, tactical gear. It is the look ICE officers crave: “This is so cool, like Call of Duty” one said. And now you can’t tell all the militaries and militarized police forces apart, to the point where they have to wear safety vests over camo. High-vis! Over camo! The irony.

                                1/2

                                Rich Stein (he/him)R This user is from outside of this forum
                                Rich Stein (he/him)R This user is from outside of this forum
                                Rich Stein (he/him)
                                wrote last edited by
                                #44

                                @inthehands
                                Just like "the medium is the message," the dress/uniform is the message —
                                https://mastodon.social/@RunRichRun/115956616524700159

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • JennyT Jenny

                                  @schwa @inthehands what a rude thing to say.

                                  Edit: they either blocked me or deleted their post, so just to clarify, this was directed at Schwa for their rude comment, not Paul (whom I wholeheartedly support)

                                  Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #45

                                  @tiamat271 @inthehands

                                  Yes, I have zero patience for useless snark right now.

                                  Paul CantrellI 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)S Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)

                                    @tiamat271 @inthehands

                                    Yes, I have zero patience for useless snark right now.

                                    Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Paul CantrellI This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Paul Cantrell
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #46

                                    @stepheneb @tiamat271
                                    I think we’re all more than a little raw right now, and grace is in short supply.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Paul CantrellI Paul Cantrell

                                      @ShadSterling @colo_lee
                                      I don’t think that distinction applies. They •are• expressing who they are: they are assembling the costumes of violence and of fascism. They sullying the beautiful practice of cosplay by using it to express something horrible. But the expression is •genuine•. If anything, I wish more people had taken it seriously sooner: through their fashion choices, through the self-expression of costume, they are sincerely telling us who they are.

                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ShadSterling
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #47

                                      @inthehands @colo_lee that’s true, and that’s something many of them were doing before they were hired into ICE. But they are also pretending to be something they’re not, in a way that seems related. They’re not soldiers with the skills to carry out military operations, the discipline to adhere to the rules of engagement, or the courage to engage a similarly armed opposition

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S ShadSterling

                                        @inthehands @colo_lee that’s true, and that’s something many of them were doing before they were hired into ICE. But they are also pretending to be something they’re not, in a way that seems related. They’re not soldiers with the skills to carry out military operations, the discipline to adhere to the rules of engagement, or the courage to engage a similarly armed opposition

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ShadSterling
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #48

                                        @inthehands @colo_lee I wonder if the use of the word “cosplay” derisively to describe that pretending contributed to people not taking seriously the threatening nature of their cosplay as a sincere expression

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Dan CrossC Dan Cross

                                          @inthehands as a veteran, I find the appropriation of military motifs by civil law enforcement extremely offensive, but also incredibly dangerous.

                                          A particularly egregious example, that I wish people would address more often, is the use of the word "civilians" to describe people that are not whatever strain of police is using the term. "Civilians" refers to people within the general civil populace, as opposed to the military. The police (in all their various forms) are members of the civil society, and as such, civilians themselves.

                                          Words have meaning, and those meanings matter. When we allow these subtle shifts in language, we normalize the militarization of police forces nationwide, but more than that, we reinforce the self-image of the police as separate from the rest of civil society. And history shows that when people view themselves as apart from civil society, they often see themselves unbeholden to the norms and ethics that govern civil society.

                                          One can draw a pretty straight line from that to these guys cosplaying soldier, wearing full tactical gear, riding on MRAPs and HMMWVs, assault rifles on their shoulders like the movies, belt-fed automatic weapons mounted on turrets in the background for Kristi Noem's photo-ops. We, collectively, should have never let anyone get away with normalizing this from the second it started. Yet how many articles does one read in the press where no one ever bothers challenging a cop when they refer to the people that they've supposedly sworn to protect and serve as "civilians", as if they, themselves, are not?

                                          Andrew Benedict-NelsonA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Andrew Benedict-NelsonA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Andrew Benedict-Nelson
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #49

                                          @cross @inthehands this has always bothered me. It also sometimes shows up in some professions (aka doctors vs civilians)

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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