Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

@h5e yeah, I think folx' perception of who is "safe" to talk over plays a big part too. There's a real pecking order to it. No one tends to interrupt the CEOs for instance, but the C-level folx will talk over the "lower ranks" like they aren't there.

Of course, my experience is from a bunch of (mostly) small-medium tech startups, with a few large tech companies as well. Other industries may be different/better (but I wouldn't bet a dollar on it).

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

@alice
In my experience, many men actually expect women to just listen to them/validate them and it's different from just talking over other men.

For many men this just seems to be how they think you "talk to women".
No intentional malice, just having it normalised so much, that it would take active effort to question it and realise what is happening.
Since pushback is rare, it's easier to just find another woman to talk to and avoid women who don't play along.

1/

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

@alice As a generally soft-spoken ¹, I see the same things pretty often. It's hard to demonstrate that yes, I actually do know wtf I'm talking about.

Could you imagine how successful some companies would be if this mediocrity were replaced?

@alice one thing I've noticed is how some people never pause to give anyone else even a chance to speak. As if there's a filibuster that needs to be kept going uninterrupted or something. And if you don't counter what they're saying when is wrong they consider you to have agreed whatever incorrect statement it is. Quite tiring.

Like you're on a CSMA/CA medium, but some people treat it as CSMA/CD but don't bother with the CD aspect of it ‍️

(That's Carrier Sense Multiple Access, with either Collision Avoidance or Collision Detection, for those not in the networking world)

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

@alice I'm sorry, that sounds endlessly exhausting and frustrating.

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

@anyia@lgbtqia.space @alice@lgbtqia.space Love the analogy!


(It could be worse. Never forget Appletalk, the protocol where address assignment is based on jabbering....)

@scottwilson lol, I couldn't to much worse then the current asshole!

@semitones

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men

Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...

"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"

In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.

The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.

I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.

Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.

¹ not all men