So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
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@0xabad1dea Also needed:
- a cat mascot!
@catsalad @0xabad1dea catcatchat!
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A system with end-to-end encryption has no access to message content on the server because that is literally the definition of E2E encryption.
That means you will never have access to past content – you weren't in the receiver list of a channel when the message was sent, and you won't retroactively get it, because the server cannot add you. You are essentially joining an empty channel or even server.
That also means that the server cannot look into message content, for example to identify and autoban spammers, work on message moderation or otherwise do what anybody would reasonably expect a server to do in terms of safety and abuse control.
It also means that the server cannot provide you with a meaningful server based search at all. Instead the client has to download the content it has keys for and then search locally. That won't happen except on desktop devices, and even there it won't work well.
You could add a server machine user to every message so that search and automoderation would have access to message content. But that means effectively you don't have, and don't need end, and don't want to end-to-end encryption.
Which you don't.
It's not a cool feature, for anybody except the most limited set of users, and these will still hate every second of the experience they are forced to have by their circumstances.
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@gabboman @0xabad1dea Agreed, although a resilient pile of non-working turds is not going to cut it.
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@0xabad1dea i'd actually argue that Whatsapp and clones already offer a decent alternative for text chats for a lot of people, so audio/video chat is *absolutely* part of any minimum viable replacement
@ratsnakegames @0xabad1dea You mean the same WhatsApp that is wholly-owned by Meta?
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@catsalad @0xabad1dea catcatchat!
@maswan @0xabad1dea Two cats and a French cat? Heck yeah!
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@ratsnakegames @0xabad1dea You mean the same WhatsApp that is wholly-owned by Meta?
@0xabad1dea @shelldozer that does not deter people from using it en masse.
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@0xabad1dea @shelldozer that does not deter people from using it en masse.
@0xabad1dea @shelldozer also, no, i mean the Whatsapp that is co-owned by Walmart, the Italian Mafia, and Migros. Duh.
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So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
Things you don’t need:
- federation/distributed systems
- multiparty end-to-end encryption
- an entirely new operating system kernel specially designed to—Things you DO need:
- a user interface that is Normal
- the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin
- higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world
- any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use itFor those of you coming to see if that exists, I checked https://mattermost.com and:
a user interface that is Normal the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use itI guess I'll see you there.
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So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
Things you don’t need:
- federation/distributed systems
- multiparty end-to-end encryption
- an entirely new operating system kernel specially designed to—Things you DO need:
- a user interface that is Normal
- the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin
- higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world
- any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use it@0xabad1dea@infosec.exchange
Am not a discord user myself but I hear #movim is taking steps to become an alternative. Maybe worth to check that out, no recent experince with discord or movim from my side though.
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@0xabad1dea french government have an open source replacement for google meet, could be a good starting place to offer audio/video next to solid chat
@gkrnours @0xabad1dea technically they also have a chat system (Tchap), which is nowhere near as advanced as what discord/slack offer.
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For those of you coming to see if that exists, I checked https://mattermost.com and:
a user interface that is Normal the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use itI guess I'll see you there.
@nojhan @0xabad1dea considering where we are and who you're replying to, maybe the source repo would be a better place to direct people?
(It's on github, but things could be worse)
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@0xabad1dea @gabboman if you don't make it distributed, you also have to host the entire bloody thing - which gets expensive once you add video chat and/or screensharing at any meaningful scale
@ratsnakegames WebRTC can work for about 80% of network configuration with just STUN and for small calls at least, especially audio only, the call quality should be at least as good as unboosted Discord. No need to shove any media thru a server. If the rest of the experience is great, this could be fine. And with the right architecture, TURN could be configured per server/channel/whatever, allowing users to either self host that OR pay (opening up a revenue option without forcing monopoly)
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@nojhan @0xabad1dea considering where we are and who you're replying to, maybe the source repo would be a better place to direct people?
(It's on github, but things could be worse)
@nojhan @0xabad1dea also, that looks more like slack
But it's probably *close enough*
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@0xabad1dea "- a user interface that is Normal "
Perhaps "a range of user interfaces to suit a variety of preferences that can be select and changed by the user at will."
Not just light vs dark themes but also the difference between more traditional desktop metaphors (IceWM/XFCE) and the swipe driven small-screen-optimised user experience that many phone users seem to favour (for reasons known to those users).
@the_wub @0xabad1dea
Respectfully, this mindset of infinite customization will drive away all but the most dedicated enthusiasts.I think a priority should be to have a small team of talented UI/UX designers create a likable, aesthetic, and intuitive interface that doesn’t feel like it was designed by an alien species tripping on acid.
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@gkrnours @0xabad1dea technically they also have a chat system (Tchap), which is nowhere near as advanced as what discord/slack offer.
@0xabad1dea @jenesuispasgoth ok but everyone and their grandma can make a chat system. And tchap is a frontend for element.io
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@katarjin.bsky.social
The basic concept is fine. The user interface is a mess. -
To be honest I do not think the normal user who is just sick of Discord and looks for something similar does really care, but it is good to have it in case you want it later I guess
Most of my friends do not even know what federation means, I have to explain to them what I learned from using Mastodon and WAFRN myself
@crowfea
That normal user will care in a few years when the platform is bought out by a sociopathic billionaire and everyone has to start all over from scratch. -
So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
Things you don’t need:
- federation/distributed systems
- multiparty end-to-end encryption
- an entirely new operating system kernel specially designed to—Things you DO need:
- a user interface that is Normal
- the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin
- higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world
- any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use it@0xabad1dea Counterpoint on the federation thing: I don't want to make 50 different accounts for 50 different instances. So at the very least federated identity and authentication should be supported, if not actual message federation.
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@ljrk @katarjin.bsky.social @0xabad1dea
I'm with you. I didn't/don't get Slack, Discord, Matrix (and neither IRC). I understand group chats but as soon as they get busy I'm completely overwhelmed and feel left alone by the tools@realn2s @katarjin.bsky.social @0xabad1dea IRC I can work with (I use Halloy), but only smaller group chats ^^'
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So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
Things you don’t need:
- federation/distributed systems
- multiparty end-to-end encryption
- an entirely new operating system kernel specially designed to—Things you DO need:
- a user interface that is Normal
- the ability to use languages other than English and writing systems other than Latin
- higher standards of user experience than how irc actually works in the real world
- any fucking clue how Discord works and why people use it@0xabad1dea > So You Want To Write An Open Source Discord Replacement
I really don't, it sounds like a lot of difficult and thankless work… oh I get it.
