Once you realize it’s not “age verification”, but actually “identity verification”, then it’s easy to understand that the real goal is “papers, please” for the entire internet.

@magnus That's not at all good enough because it doesn't stop botpeople from Russia and other dictatorships. There's more than enough of them to destroy this kind of simplistic solution — and disinformation factories are only growing.

@mhoye

@axel_hartmann @brouhaha @mhoye definitely informed my response

@dalias @txtx@mastodon.social
Txtx is a mastodon.social account and opinions from those should always be ignored.

@mhoye
I'm not sure I completely agree. If you use a bank account as proof of age, the service provider should only receive a yes/no, and no other details whatsoever. There's no way I'd use facial recognition or age estimation, but other techniques (which may seem to be more risky at first sight, such as via your bank) may be pretty safe.

@passenger I seriously question if following around fascists/racists has done any good for society in the last decade or so.

On the contrary it seems like a bad addiction, and it's only getting worse because we're just injecting more of it into our daily lives. Why do we need to listen to them? Are we their lackeys?

@mhoye

@txtx that's like telling us to nerd harder.

@dalias @mhoye

@DiogoConstantino So? What's wrong with trying harder? Is laziness an excuse?

I want more fellow tech people to step away from the libertarian ideals of the current Internet, and start coming up with ways to help save democracy from aggressive states and their disinformation campaigns.

@dalias @mhoye

@brouhaha @mhoye There is a discrepancy in your response.

@txtx nerding harder is not working harder, is what people who don't understand tech, tell to nerds to implement their magical thinking.

@dalias @mhoye

@dave @mhoye The Swiss government e-ID is basically promising that: verify the age, but without leaving a data trace that can be linked (on either side) to anything. Despite being technically sound (open source and all), the law just barely passed the referendum. I guess the risk is that companies will use more "convenient" ways to verify age, and/or share any verified info they get with their whole ad network, where everything ends up linked with everything else. https://www.eid.admin.ch/en

@mhoye@cosocial.ca If there was a real need for age verification, it should be implemented on alcohol selling website, bet websites, and so on. Age verification is just disguised censorship.

RE: https://cosocial.ca/users/mhoye/statuses/116100193371749156

@DiogoConstantino Why do you turn to a personal accusation against me? C'mon, we can do better than that. I've been in this field for over a quarter century thanks.

@txtx @mhoye

We listen to them so we know what they're up to and can oppose it.

To give an example the media knows about: in early 2023 there was a group of fascists who intended on storming a Drag Queen Story Hour in South London. When the fascists arrived they found that we were there ahead of time and we had big sticks.

Bonk.

If we weren't in their chats monitoring their planning, how would we have been able to bonk?

@passenger So you had criminals using their real names on social media to publicly organize violent criminal activities?

Do you have a source for this?

@passenger and a follow up question:

*This* is the internet you're defending?

@txtx

Yes. The cops often monitor these chats so they can turn up and protect the fascists in question. Sometimes they don't and then we have fun.

An example is UKIP's planned attack on mosques in Birmingham this very weekend. You are welcome to come to Birmingham to oppose them if you want. There will probably be a lot of cops there to keep the fascists safe.

It's important to understand that violent fascist thuggery gets organised regularly in the UK by people with their real names and real faces, under the full knowledge of the police, and said police do nothing. At worst they might briefly hold a few high-profile people, but it's not serious: is Danny Tommo behind bars? Is Tommy Robinson, or Mark Collett, or Nick Tenconi?

If the concept of the rule of law has been abandoned by the state, you should probably consider your fallback option. Because mine was to get a mask and hoodie.

@passenger This just solidifies my opinion that I absolutely do not want to replicate UK politics in the EU. Everything about it sounds like a failure, from using social media to organize crime to having stick fights with thugs.

I demand more from my government.

@txtx

Be careful, a lot of EU states are basically the same. Some (Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Italy, Hungary) have already gone further and let the fascists into power. Others (France, Hungary) have banned organised antifascist groups.

You have chosen not to tell me where you live. That's fine! Privacy is everyone's right. Your country of residence may not have openly embraced fascism yet. But it creeps in, and by the time it reveals itself it's already too late. You should consider what, apart from voting, you're going to do.

@bencourtice I think we need a more sophisticated approach. I'll give an example:

Twitter users generally appreciated the blue checkmark that verified official accounts.

I think that, in working democracies, an opt-in verification for citizens could be an answer. This may mean being an ID to a post office, but we can still make it anonymous so that neither the govt nor the server owner knows which ID was used to verify which account.

Then I can safely ignore unverified users.

@passenger And the rise of far right parties can be directly attributed to the rise in anonymous bot armies paid and organized by foreign dictators.

I say: tackle the problem at the core.