Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Darkly)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo
  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Uncategorized
22 Posts 19 Posters 0 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • KrisI Kris

    Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

    He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

    The scale says:

    • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
    • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
    • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

    The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

    The Kardashian scale

    • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
    • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
    • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

    So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

    We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

    jvluso@towns.gayJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jvluso@towns.gayJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jvluso@towns.gay
    wrote last edited by
    #13

    @isotopp Right now the thing detaching us from reality is discourse, but I think the dark ages also got to Type 3 with Religion being the thing detaching them from reality.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • KrisI Kris

      Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

      He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

      The scale says:

      • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
      • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
      • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

      The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

      The Kardashian scale

      • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
      • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
      • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

      So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

      We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

      Daniel WengelinD This user is from outside of this forum
      Daniel WengelinD This user is from outside of this forum
      Daniel Wengelin
      wrote last edited by
      #14

      @isotopp

      Nice dystopia! I admit - the first glance parsed the Kardashev name wrong....

      But how come a German has a Swedish elevator sign on the profile?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • KrisI Kris

        Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

        He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

        The scale says:

        • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
        • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
        • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

        The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

        The Kardashian scale

        • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
        • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
        • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

        So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

        We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

        dex77D This user is from outside of this forum
        dex77D This user is from outside of this forum
        dex77
        wrote last edited by
        #15

        @isotopp
        "there are four lights!"

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • mithosM mithos

          @isotopp What's our score on the Kessler Scale and will we reach Type 1 soon? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

          Third spruce tree on the leftT This user is from outside of this forum
          Third spruce tree on the leftT This user is from outside of this forum
          Third spruce tree on the left
          wrote last edited by
          #16

          @mithos @isotopp Im trying to think if the whole globe is shrouded by satellite debris would that lower or raise our planetary albedo? i.e. are satellite pieces sparkly?

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • KrisI Kris

            Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

            He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

            The scale says:

            • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
            • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
            • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

            The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

            The Kardashian scale

            • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
            • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
            • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

            So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

            We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

            Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈L This user is from outside of this forum
            Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈L This user is from outside of this forum
            Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈
            wrote last edited by
            #17

            @isotopp I wonder if 'Type 3' is the Great Filter that has Scientists worried?

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • KrisI Kris

              Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

              He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

              The scale says:

              • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
              • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
              • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

              The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

              The Kardashian scale

              • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
              • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
              • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

              So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

              We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

              PRWP This user is from outside of this forum
              PRWP This user is from outside of this forum
              PRW
              wrote last edited by
              #18

              @isotopp Kardashian typology needs moar butts

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • KrisI Kris

                Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

                He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

                The scale says:

                • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
                • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
                • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

                The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

                The Kardashian scale

                • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
                • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
                • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

                So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

                We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

                Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N This user is from outside of this forum
                Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N This user is from outside of this forum
                Winchell Chung ⚛🚀
                wrote last edited by
                #19

                @isotopp

                In 1973 Carl Sagan estimated that humanity is currently around Type 0.7. He derived the following formula by interpolation:

                K = (log10[P] - 6) / 10

                P = antilog10[(K * 10) + 6]

                where:

                K: Kardashev Rating
                P: Power harnessed by civilization (watts)
                log10[x] : Common logarithm of x
                antilog10[x] : Common antilogarithm of x

                Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • KrisI Kris

                  Nikolai Kardashev was a Soviet radio astronomer and astrophysicist who wanted to know how one could even detect extraterrestrial civilizations at all, the “SETI problem”.

                  He concluded: by energy consumption. The Kardashev scale is therefore not an ISO standard (ISO = Interstellar Standards Organization?), but a thinking tool devised by one person.

                  The scale says:

                  • Type 1: Uses all the energy available to its planet. For example, an albedo-zero world completely covered in solar cells.
                  • Type 2: Uses all the energy available to its star system. Not a million satellites in orbit, but a Dyson sphere that captures all the light and radiation of a star.
                  • Type 3: Uses the energy of all stars in a galaxy.

                  The idea of launching data centers into space, more precisely into LEO, must therefore be evaluated on a different scale:

                  The Kardashian scale

                  • A Type 1 civilization on the Kardashian scale has a public discourse that is no longer driven by facts, but by emotion and attention.
                  • A Type 2 civilization no longer has this discourse under control, and counterfactual emotional discourse begins to control politics, research, and the economy, where unscientific and outright stupid narratives now take over steering.
                  • A Type 3 civilization has complete epistemic decoupling: visibility has fully replaced truth, reach beats evidence, and consistency is irrelevant as long as the narrative is exciting. Physical limits are dismissed as “bad vibes”, and criticism is read as a moral flaw and subversion.

                  So we are not measuring energy, but loss of contact with reality. Many tech visions of recent years (everything from and including Bitcoin onward) map directly onto this scale.

                  We are now already a Kardashian Type 2 civilization.

                  Greg EganG This user is from outside of this forum
                  Greg EganG This user is from outside of this forum
                  Greg Egan
                  wrote last edited by
                  #20

                  @isotopp

                  “America is now what anthropologists call a Kardashian Type Three civilisation: more than fifty percent of GDP is in the attention economy.”

                  https://www.gregegan.net/MISC/RUINS/Ruins.html

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N Winchell Chung ⚛🚀

                    @isotopp

                    In 1973 Carl Sagan estimated that humanity is currently around Type 0.7. He derived the following formula by interpolation:

                    K = (log10[P] - 6) / 10

                    P = antilog10[(K * 10) + 6]

                    where:

                    K: Kardashev Rating
                    P: Power harnessed by civilization (watts)
                    log10[x] : Common logarithm of x
                    antilog10[x] : Common antilogarithm of x

                    Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N This user is from outside of this forum
                    Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N This user is from outside of this forum
                    Winchell Chung ⚛🚀
                    wrote last edited by
                    #21

                    @isotopp

                    Kardashev Scale
                    -0.48 A civilization that is able to harness the power of one manual laborer. ~17W
                    0 harness the power of 60,000 manual laborers. ~10^6W
                    1 harness all of the power available on a single planet. ~10^16
                    2 harness all of the power available from a single star. ~10^26
                    3 harness all of the power available from a single galaxy. ~10^36
                    4 harness all of the power available in the entire universe. ~10^46

                    60sRefugee6 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Winchell Chung ⚛🚀N Winchell Chung ⚛🚀

                      @isotopp

                      Kardashev Scale
                      -0.48 A civilization that is able to harness the power of one manual laborer. ~17W
                      0 harness the power of 60,000 manual laborers. ~10^6W
                      1 harness all of the power available on a single planet. ~10^16
                      2 harness all of the power available from a single star. ~10^26
                      3 harness all of the power available from a single galaxy. ~10^36
                      4 harness all of the power available in the entire universe. ~10^46

                      60sRefugee6 This user is from outside of this forum
                      60sRefugee6 This user is from outside of this forum
                      60sRefugee
                      wrote last edited by
                      #22

                      @nyrath @isotopp I keep thinking that they really need to image ring galaxies in the deep infrared to make sure that those "empty" centers aren't really where all the energy is being radiated at waste-heat frequencies instead of visible light.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • R ActivityRelay shared this topic
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Tags
                      • Popular
                      • World
                      • Users
                      • Groups