Tesla convicted 18 times and ordered to pay thousands for failing to help UK police with investigations

Charlie Stross

In each case, when British police officers tried to track down the details of speeding Tesla drivers, their letters went unanswered and the forces ended up prosecuting the company itself

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/tesla-elon-musk-car-convicted-5HjdR8N_2/

Donald Roy

@cstross

How long before someone claims #uk is a police state as a result?

Coral (bleached era)

@cstross TIL the registered keeper for a car under a hire-purchase agreement is the finance provider.

also "80mph on the M4 near to the village of Groes-faen in Wales" is a pretty tortured way to imply but not say "80mph in a village" journalism is dead

Mireya Strife

@cstross Tesla sucks and Elon is a terrible human being, but honestly, I pretty much prefer my car manufacturer not giving my data to the police, ever. Imagine them prosecuting women suspected of abortion, for example.

Of course I'd rather have my car to not send any data anywhere, but I don't think there are any new cars that respect your privacy.

jaark

@coral @cstross that's not the case usually though. I've had cars under HP and PCP and all of them have been registered to me as the owner.
I suspect that these may be lease cars rather than HP (I've never had a lease so dunno what happens there)

Charlie Stross

@djr2024 Likely, but Tesla is the registered keeper of these cars—under UK law if you own a car that's caught speeding, you are liable unless you tell the cops who was driving at the time! Which Tesla failed to do. It's a slam-dunk (law exists to stop ass-hats setting up a shell company to own their car so they can speed with impunity).

Matthew Miller

@mstrife @cstross

That was my impulse on seeing just the headline, but... no, it's not that. The cars are leased, which means (apparently) that the public records list the leasing company as the owner. They are simply asking "hey, who is this car leased to", not requesting telemetry to prove the case or anything.

Charlie Stross

@mstrife Tesla is the *registered keeper* ie. owner of the speeding cars. The owner is liable for the driving offense unless they tell the police who was driving at the time. This isn't bullshit, it's to stop idiots setting up a shell company as "registered keeper" of their car so they can evade speeding tickets.

Angus McIntyre

@cstross “Hello, thank you for calling Musk Industries Crime Support Line. Please press 1 if you require assistance committing motoring offenses, 2 if you wish to generate illegal pornography, or 3 for all other options. Alternatively, stay on the line and one of our agents will assist you. Your call may be monitored or recorded for LLM training purposes.”

Charlie Stross

@jaark @coral I note Tesla does/did let prospective customers borrow cars for a test-drive. It's probably that scheme.

jaark

@cstross @coral Ahh, that makes more sense.. and I can see the temptation to do stupid things in a car in an unsupervised test-drive would be high for some people.

Mireya Strife

@cstross oh okay, fine, I thought it was more a telemetry kind of thing. It makes total sense with cars that are actually leased. My fault.

jsl

@mattdm @mstrife @cstross It's the same with car hire. The car is registered to {Avis; Hertz; Sixt; ...}. You rent the car. You speed. The letter goes to the hire car firm. Either they pass it on or they pay.
What happens if the fine doesn't get paid? The force could get a court order and impound the offending vehicle or send a bailiff to seize property.

Eleanor Saitta

@cstross
Thousands. I'm sure they'll change their policy immediately

Charlie Stross

@dymaxion Thousands for *each* offense, by the look of it. Which means Tesla losing money every time due to not having a legally compliant system.

Jernej Simončič �

@jaark @coral @cstross If you buy car on credit, you're the registered owner; if you use leasing instead, the leasing provider (either a bank, or the leasing company) is the owner until you pay off the car.

Coral (bleached era)

good point, thanks!

Eleanor Saitta

@cstross
28k total, though? Like, still. I mean, if there's someone who genuinely values the regulatory relationship it'll get fixed, but this isn't enough money for anyone to actually notice otherwise. Given how much everything is on fire there now, I doubt they'll do anything.

Alan Bellingham

@coral @cstross "pretty tortured way"

No it isn't. For it to be 'in a village', the M4 would have to go through Groes-faen. It doesn't, it merely passes near it, and therefore the stated location is fine

It is also almost certainly what was stated on the police paperwork. IME motorway police give the name of the nearest community when ticketing motorists, so even when the offense wasn't committed within the place, the place will be specified

I'm very glad the journalists aren't clueless

Alan Bellingham

@angusm @cstross As opposed to Musk's Limited, who have rung me twice recently regarding a delivery

(They're a company based in Newmarket that usually trade as Stilton Butchers, but who do make sausages under the original name)