I'm curious, now that Mastodon is better at loading missing replies, have you noticed a decrease in mansplaining?

@stefan @fluffy @scottjenson Oh nice one, I didn't know anyone already does this. Must check out Discourse.

@miblo Yes, here's a screenshot of what this might look like on a forum: https://meta.discourse.org/t/how-do-i-enable-similar-topics-for-my-community/245479?tl=en

Pretty neat!

@fluffy @scottjenson

@stefan @fluffy @scottjenson Ah thanks, yeah, it looks sweet and just what I've had in mind this whole time! Surely it'd be a game-changer for us in microblogging…

@stefan I'm sorry for anyone that's been patronized because of their gender. Condescension based on assumptions is wrong.

My understanding is that mansplaining is explaining because you assume a woman doesn't know something. I don't dispute that happens.

What frustrates me though is the double standard I keep seeing. For example if I see someone writing something I don't agree with I tend to over explain. Not because of any gender but because I have opinions and want to ensure I explain what I mean. That's just how I communicate with everyone.

But I've watched the term get used here as a catch-all for any time a man disagrees with or corrects a woman. Sometimes warranted, sometimes not. And it builds this fear of even participating in discussions with women because your reasoning gets ignored in favor of assumed sexist intent.

If we're assuming someone's motivation based on their gender without evidence, how is that different from the problem we're trying to solve?

Let's put a stop to sexism. On both sides.

@miblo @stefan @scottjenson Yeah I have mixed feelings about Discourse in general but some of its UX stuff is genuinely great.

As a typical male I don't know if I'm sufficiently equipped to detect mansplaining. So, not sure.

@watchfulcitizen Yeah, the term does sometimes get used as a shorthand for different kinds of unsolicited replies.

And I do agree that social situations can get a bit tricky to navigate, especially online.

At the same time, when we see a complete stranger get something wrong on the internet, do we need to let them know? Maybe if it's a life-threatening misinformation, sure.

I for one have had a much better experience myself after I realized that it's fine to let people be wrong sometimes.

@stefan I have little patience for dickwads so I block when needed. Meanwhile, not noticing any changes.

@wendinoakland Ah, sorry you have to deal with that!

@stefan It’s a regular feature of “being female on the internet”. See: “Men Explain Things to Me” (Rebecca Solnit)

@stefan Fair point about picking battles. I could be better at that.

My concern is when offering a perspective or disagreeing gets dismissed based on gender assumptions rather than content or tone. If cross-gender discussion becomes something to avoid because of that risk, we end up with less dialogue, not more equality.

Maybe the answer is judging behavior on its own merits instead of who's involved?

@watchfulcitizen Yeah, you're not wrong, but also, trying to look at things from the perspective of someone who often deals with men jumping into their mentions thinking they're being helpful when they're not, I can see them not having a ton of patience left.

@wendinoakland Well, I definitely appreciate your, and other marginalized people's resilience and patience!

@stefan I hear you about the patience, I can imagine it must be exhausting.

But I'm stuck on this. If we're fighting gender assumptions, why name the problem after a gender? That shifts who gets assumed about.

Maybe I'm missing something. But judging by gender instead of behavior seems like what we're trying to stop, not redirect.

@watchfulcitizen Because it is a uniquely male problem.

Yes, of course, not all men, and all that, but I'm personally not offended, I know it doesn't apply to me (or at least I hope so!) and it is a reminder that it is up to us men to hold each other responsible and call out bad behavior.

Best way to get rid of the term is to help eradicate the behavior.

@stefan I agree, mostly a male pattern and we should call it out and fix it.

But generalizing by gender pushes us who don't do it into defensiveness. Humans dig in when grouped with behavior they don't do.

Expecting men to correct sexist behavior by being sexist towards them seems backwards.

I just think the term itself is what bothers me

@watchfulcitizen Well, I see that I won't be able to change your mind, so as the last thing I'll add, I'll just reiterate, almost nobody thinks that literally all men are mansplainers, all of the time, so trying to argue that point is kind of a waste of time.

The term has already caught on, and while there might be more gender-neutral alternatives, I don't know, I mean you're free to try to use them, see if they catch on. You never know!

@stefan it *definitely* decreases the amount of replies saying (basically) the same thing. i would not call previous instances of that mansplaining, though, because the repliers could do everything in their power to check that they weren’t duplicating someone else’s reply and still wind up doing so. i’m not sure whether you mean to include this phenomenon in your poll.

@stefan ironically, i am only belatedly realizing that others have already replied to you with more or less the same confusion

@chrisamaphone I was specifically thinking about mansplaining when I posted this, I think it would be good to do a proper study on the full impact of this feature. Looking at the results and the replies, I'm guessing it helps reduce the amount of duplicate replies, but people who are dead set on having their voice heard just don't care all that much.

(The poll was boosted by a few Mastodon folks, so maybe this will at least get the conversation started!)