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  3. If Rachel Reeves cannot see that university student loans are becoming a totemic issue among graduates, then she may be heading for her own Nick-Clegg-moment when one decision prompts a haemorrhaging of the graduate vote (from Labour).

If Rachel Reeves cannot see that university student loans are becoming a totemic issue among graduates, then she may be heading for her own Nick-Clegg-moment when one decision prompts a haemorrhaging of the graduate vote (from Labour).

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politicsuniversitiesgreens
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  • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

    @ChrisMayLA6 @albertcardona @jwi

    I suspect you could also do something with unfair hiring legislation to make discrimination on the grounds of holding a degree illegal. Unless you can show that a specific degree confers skills that cannot be acquired without it then you may not use it in hiring decisions. Companies never 100% comply with these things, but they do provide nudges. HR in big organisations will avoid automated filtering on them and will strip this information before passing it to a hiring manager.

    Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
    Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
    Emeritus Prof Christopher May
    wrote last edited by
    #26

    @david_chisnall @albertcardona @jwi

    Yes, degree as a sort mechanism is corrosive

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    • Albert CardonaA Albert Cardona

      @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

      And more than that, a change in perceptions. For when I ask undergraduates here at Cambridge University why are they here, to learn or to get a credential, almost all say the latter. None of them should be here, they should be in a professional school where the credentials will match the jobs they seek.

      David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D This user is from outside of this forum
      David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)D This user is from outside of this forum
      David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
      wrote last edited by
      #27

      @albertcardona @ChrisMayLA6 @jwi

      When I was DoS at a Cambridge College, I always told my new students this: You are here to do two things, acquire an education and pass some exams. Do not make the mistake of confusing these two goals’. It would make me much happier if these two goals were more closely aligned.

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      • Albert CardonaA Albert Cardona

        @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

        And more than that, a change in perceptions. For when I ask undergraduates here at Cambridge University why are they here, to learn or to get a credential, almost all say the latter. None of them should be here, they should be in a professional school where the credentials will match the jobs they seek.

        Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
        Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
        Emeritus Prof Christopher May
        wrote last edited by
        #28

        @albertcardona @david_chisnall @jwi

        but that instrumentalism has been, of course, the focus of Govt. policy pronouncements for decades

        Albert CardonaA 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC Emeritus Prof Christopher May

          @albertcardona @david_chisnall @jwi

          but that instrumentalism has been, of course, the focus of Govt. policy pronouncements for decades

          Albert CardonaA This user is from outside of this forum
          Albert CardonaA This user is from outside of this forum
          Albert Cardona
          wrote last edited by
          #29

          @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

          So how do we create the necessary circumstances of available information and public opinion to shift government policy towards reinstating professional schools? How can that be made acceptable and desirable to those in charge of now called universities that used to be polytechniques? And to the government to supply the funding?

          Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Albert CardonaA Albert Cardona

            @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

            So how do we create the necessary circumstances of available information and public opinion to shift government policy towards reinstating professional schools? How can that be made acceptable and desirable to those in charge of now called universities that used to be polytechniques? And to the government to supply the funding?

            Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
            Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
            Emeritus Prof Christopher May
            wrote last edited by
            #30

            @albertcardona @david_chisnall @jwi

            Well the first thing would be to de-professionalise politics - while out political class are predominantly university educated they will see that as the the key educative norm - that said, nowadays they seem also happy to destroy much of the sector on the alter of what used to be called the new pubic management & might now best de called market-normalisation

            Albert CardonaA 1 Reply Last reply
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            • Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC Emeritus Prof Christopher May

              @albertcardona @david_chisnall @jwi

              Well the first thing would be to de-professionalise politics - while out political class are predominantly university educated they will see that as the the key educative norm - that said, nowadays they seem also happy to destroy much of the sector on the alter of what used to be called the new pubic management & might now best de called market-normalisation

              Albert CardonaA This user is from outside of this forum
              Albert CardonaA This user is from outside of this forum
              Albert Cardona
              wrote last edited by
              #31

              @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

              If that's the desirable action, what will create the conditions for it? Because anyone in power will only move if they see it as a win for themselves.

              Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Albert CardonaA Albert Cardona

                @ChrisMayLA6 @david_chisnall @jwi

                If that's the desirable action, what will create the conditions for it? Because anyone in power will only move if they see it as a win for themselves.

                Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
                Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC This user is from outside of this forum
                Emeritus Prof Christopher May
                wrote last edited by
                #32

                @albertcardona @david_chisnall @jwi

                good Q: to which (sadly) I have no way nor immediate answer

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                • Claire McNab2 Claire McNab

                  @ChrisMayLA6 And the reason UKLabour are out of time is #FPTP.

                  In 2007–11, #FiannaFail drove Ireland's economy over a cliff edge. #FF lost 58% of its vote share at Ireland's 2011 general election, but #STV ensured that #FF was not wiped out. It partially rebuilt, and by 2024 FF was again the largest party.

                  But #FPTP is far more brutal to losers. Labour's likely fall to under 20% of the vote will leave it as a tiny rump, too weak to rebuild.

                  The Penguin of EvilE This user is from outside of this forum
                  The Penguin of EvilE This user is from outside of this forum
                  The Penguin of Evil
                  wrote last edited by
                  #33

                  @2legged @ChrisMayLA6 They've still got time to fix the voting system - which the tories would probably back, the libdems and other minor parties would back.

                  Not quite how I expected the UK broken voting system to get fixed but they may have to do it to survive 😎

                  Claire McNab2 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • The Penguin of EvilE The Penguin of Evil

                    @2legged @ChrisMayLA6 They've still got time to fix the voting system - which the tories would probably back, the libdems and other minor parties would back.

                    Not quite how I expected the UK broken voting system to get fixed but they may have to do it to survive 😎

                    Claire McNab2 This user is from outside of this forum
                    Claire McNab2 This user is from outside of this forum
                    Claire McNab
                    wrote last edited by
                    #34

                    Yes, @etchedpixels, this is a unique opportunity. Technically not hard, cos it doesn't need fully new boundaries. Just clustering of 5-7 existing constituencies to form new multi-seat #STV constituencies.

                    I think that the Conservatives would oppose, but LibDems + SNP + Plaid + #GPEW + SDLP would support.

                    @ChrisMayLA6

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                    • Emeritus Prof Christopher MayC Emeritus Prof Christopher May

                      If Rachel Reeves cannot see that university student loans are becoming a totemic issue among graduates, then she may be heading for her own Nick-Clegg-moment when one decision prompts a haemorrhaging of the graduate vote (from Labour).

                      The problem is that Labour still thinks they can bank on there being no vialable alternative on their left flank; which with Zack Polanski leading the GPEW, is no longer true; another Labour miscalculation?

                      #politics #universities #Greens
                      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3k4xdqyp1o

                      Doug πŸŒˆπŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :verified:O This user is from outside of this forum
                      Doug πŸŒˆπŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :verified:O This user is from outside of this forum
                      Doug πŸŒˆπŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ :verified:
                      wrote last edited by
                      #35

                      @ChrisMayLA6 I have yet to see any kind of clear, concise people centered policy statement from Labour. Just disjointed pokes at a mass of problems that will achieve nothing. Admittedly not much filters down to a small town on Canada's west coast, but if a leader said something meaningful, we'd hear about it.

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