NATO is over now.

musing_sys🇨🇦

@CptSuperlative just going to leave this here

https://sfba.social/@markmetz/115789437104146552

Normie

@CptSuperlative I had hoped, long ago, that the rest of the nations would see how bat shit crazy the US has become and rally against them (remove them as the global hegemon, opt for a multi power system)

but I guess we need a moment that wakes everyone up, draws that line in the sand

all the crazy shit that's already going on hasn't been it

brace yourselves, Trump will only get more fucking nuts

Beeker, in Prescott ON

@CptSuperlative As a Canadian who doesn't understand the global and local ramifications of these actions, I think I would very much like us to be a part of this alliance.
️

Alan Bellingham

@tbn97 @CptSuperlative Given that Canada has borders with Denmark (Greenland) and France (there's a Canadian lighthouse only about 8 miles from the airport in St-Pierre), then Europe and Canada make natural fellows

Oblomov

@CptSuperlative or the USA could be kicked out, and the other countries including Canada stay in.

Caoilte O'Connor

@CptSuperlative Ukraine is a lost cause. We can't guarantee its safety even with US involvement. Better to seek neutral status for whatever rump state is left after a peace deal and do our best to limit Russian political/economic hegemony over it. And while we're at it we should be wary of military alliances with Baltic states discriminating against their Russian speaking citizens. We need an offramp from hatred.

Phosphenes

@CptSuperlative @madengineering

And Mexico, and Brazil, the list goes on. Basically a coalition of the sane.

Da Silva and Sheinbaum are going to need extra protection after what happened to Maduro.

And throw out Hungary. It would be cool to have a NATO where membership is contingent on some metric of functioning democracy.

lp0 on fire :unverified:

@CptSuperlative, get passed it? They'd have to pass it on first, surely…

(And that'd probably be via Reform.)

Isaac Ji Kuo

@CptSuperlative @madengineering I would say that NATO as we know it is over, but the suggested "replacement alliance" is NATO.

Bluntly, POTUS Trump has absolutely zero interest in USA membership in NATO, nor any subset of NATO. Nor any replacement for a subset of NATO.

So it's not like there is some internal power struggle where Trump is trying to carve off some "coalition of the willing" or anything like that. No, he simply does not understand the concept of an alliance at all.

This is

Isaac Ji Kuo

@CptSuperlative @madengineering quintessentially different from the internal divisions caused by Bush and his demand that NATO countries participate in invading Iraq. That was an honest to goodness internal power struggle.

Bush wanted subservient partners. Trump doesn't even understand the concept of having partners.

I think NATO has already averted the true existential crisis to NATO, by standing up to this Greenland thing. In response, Trump hasn't gone, "You're either with us or against us"

Isaac Ji Kuo

@CptSuperlative @madengineering So this leaves NATO in a position it has already been ... not 100% united, but nevertheless mostly united - with no serious alternative bloc within it.

Major Denis Bloodnok

@tbn97 @CptSuperlative I'm afraid that its empire is very much not, but entering a new era of overt 19th century extractive imperialism - Venezuela being compelled to sell raw resources to the USA and to buy US goods with the money is straight out of the Empress of India's book.

That might not last forever, but it's not immediately clear who or what is going to make them stop.

LionelB

@jasperamorgan @CptSuperlative

But not with Hungary. Let them join the Russian army.

Manc AvGeek

@CptSuperlative I would disagree - it's single biggest member (by population) seems to want to declare war on the rest, but the 750 Million population of European member nations, plus Canada, outnumbers the US's 330 million.
NATO already exists, and has been working around US policies for years - it doesn't need replacing, although I would suggest inviting Mexico to join, as well as Ukraine.

publius

@CptSuperlative

My fellow Americans keep coming up with new ways to disappoint me.

DeterioratedStucco

@CptSuperlative Completely agree. I've been wanting the old EDO restarted for several years (I think it might be ten, oddly enough).

БРОНЗЫ БИТЬ

@denisbloodnok @CptSuperlative these are the actions a of a fading empire. Internal pressures will make them stop, eventually. The death throes are usually ugly. And usually look a lot like this. This will stop within a couple of decades, when the implosion is complete (yes, they can do a lot of damage on the way down).

Major Denis Bloodnok

@tbn97 @CptSuperlative I hope you are right but I fear you are not, and I'm not sure we can rely very much on precedent; there has been no previous nuclear-armed empire [1], nor one with such overwhelming military superiority (although I suppose one might argue the Royal Navy post-Napoleon came close).

[1] let me add "behaving like this" just in case the stub end of the British Empire overlaps with becoming nuclear-armed, although I'd argue it does not.

Captain Superlative

@SoftwareTheron

I don’t know what happens with all of the US bases in Europe.

I’m frustrated and disgusted by my country.

Captain Superlative

@musing_sys

Yep. Saw that before. Was not surprised at all.