Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@firefoxwebdevs But wait… what if the developers used AI to help develop the code in the browser itself? Does that mean AI kill switch purists should then rather not even use the product at all?
> what if the developers used AI to help develop the code in the browser itself?
Then the slop in the browser itself should not be trusted.
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@fasterandworse @davidgerard the browsers by design don’t want that extension, I don’t see a point in Mozilla forking chrome
@eckes @fasterandworse I don't see a point in the AI shit and the CEO has already floated blocking adblockers, so here we are
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs the "no AI" kill switch should turn off every feature based on machine learning, and list them. The list should contain specific, simple, trustworthy (verifiable) documentation about specifically which ML tech underpins the feature; how the training corpora were gathered (from whom, and with what consent); how and who vetted the model inputs; and the energy costs/environmental impacts of keeping the models up to date.
This is an opportunity to empower and to educate.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs rather than mess about with kill switches for a product most people don't want, strip all that AI crap out of the browser and make extensions that integrate with various LLM models so those who do want it can add it but don't force this slop on everyone by default
I've been a FF user since the beta days and have now switched to Librewolf because of the AI and ad tech bloat in FF
It makes me sad to see FF decline in this way & become another AI bloated browser
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs
Can Firefox devs put up a Yes/No poll on whether they should just make a web browser? My vote is Yes. -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
Are you measuring the percentage of users engaging witj your AI chat options vs. those ignoring them? What are the numbers?
How many users have you lost since?
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs ...AI & ML should be off by default.
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@tassoman @firefoxwebdevs the question is about the page translation feature, not chats.
@shadowwwind
And as shared elsethread, they're pretty open with that feature: https://github.com/mozilla/translationsIncluding pointing us to the training data they use, if I'm reading this right.
@tassoman -
@davidgerard @theorangetheme @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social Such a waste, too. Years of standards fighting, differentiation with Gecko, then Quantum (see? I WAS a follower all along!) and being a model of what Open Source stewardship could mean for the larger Internet.
RIP Mozilla, if you thought you were floundering as a Not for Profit Corp, you're worse than useless as a Marketing Agency.
@Tock @davidgerard @theorangetheme @theogrin (Quick interjection: I love that everybody cares about Firefox enough to be bothered. If we didn’t, we’d be ignoring it completely. Nobody is talking about Opera.)
I get all this. My worry is that everyone just turns their backs on Firefox and abandons it, it’ll just go away. And that leaves us with Chromium ONLY.
I think we need to find productive ways to get what we need and stand firm on that. But killing it is not good for the web ecosystem.
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@tasket if you want a serious discussion about the role translations should or shouldn’t have in a browser, let me refer you to steve: https://hci.social/@fasterandworse/115849566354469222
I don’t really feel anything about the translations feature other than disappointment, a bit of concern over how the data was sourced, and a strong feeling that it shouldn’t be a core browser feature
@zzt
Here's the datasets they're using: https://opus.nlpl.eu/corpora
@tasket -
@davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs “but wait just let me explain the AI kill switch”, Mozilla continues to insist, as they slowly expand and transform into an SBF
@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs Mozilla spent 25 years being unable to get the "don't use tabs" preference to work and I'm supposed to believe their "turn off AI" preference will work?
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@davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs “but wait just let me explain the AI kill switch”, Mozilla continues to insist, as they slowly expand and transform into an SBF
@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs What Mozilla needs now is an "AI kill switch" that can actually kill.
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@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs What Mozilla needs now is an "AI kill switch" that can actually kill.
@jwz @zzt @firefoxwebdevs we added an extension to send 440 volts through the other guy's chair
1M+ installs first week, 0 users remaining second week
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@dejantesicnaarm *plonk*
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@davidgerard @RAOF If your core belief is that Mozilla is failing to serve at the benefit of its members, then what are you even doing on this thread? You just hoping to harass the Dev account until they block you out of spite?
What evidence could any of us provide that would change your mind and cause you to become a Mozilla booster instead?
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@firefoxwebdevs What do you mean "open data"? https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/toolkit/components/translations/resources/01_overview.html points to https://browser.mt/ points to https://paracrawl.eu/index.php which says "We do not own any of the text from which these data has been extracted."
@twifkak @firefoxwebdevs +1, the definition of “open data” is extremely important.
It’s only okay if it was *consensually* trained.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I want Firefox to be a great web browser. You'll notice that I didn't say LLM, ML, AI or anything like that. I don't want that stuff. I just want FF to be a good web browser without being infected by AI. Why is that difficult to understand?
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@chillicampari @firefoxwebdevs @joepie91
️ But that alone won’t be enough to rebuild trust; I’d like to suggest something that would help with that, but unfortunately that’s far outside my wheelhouse
️@ShadSterling @chillicampari @firefoxwebdevs @joepie91 Rebuilding trust is exactly that - you can't restore or reset trust, you have to build it again, over time and multiple instances, just as you did the first time. Unlike your past self, you've already shown that you will violate trust, so it will take more time and more instances.
Anything less doesn't result in actual trust.
I agree that "AI" isn't going to work as a term to build trust.
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@cassidy @firefoxwebdevs this is because it's an AI marketing lie. "ha, you say you hate slop, so does that mean you hate *xrays* now? Checkmate, AI hater!"
@davidgerard @cassidy @firefoxwebdevs Even the goalposts are slop now.
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