PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
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@MisuseCase @davidgerard @aral @precariousmind @element Well. Just for the sake of accuracy, matrix foundation includes people from element. They have strong ties. But matrix foundation is at least supposed to be neutral and mostly about the protocol. But it is hard to avoid element in the matrix ecosystem as of yet anyways. So I can see your point.
@prma @MisuseCase @aral @precariousmind @element so to be clear, you're saying Matrix are just the other ten guys at the table
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@aral This is not the case. See https://element.io/en/legal/ethics for the public ethics policy of who we sell to.
Matrix came out of Israel, and on your 'who you sell to' section:
"Public sector defence work - e.g. NATO, US Department of Defense, German Bundeswehr, UK Ministry of Defence, Ukraine MOD"
A cursory look at the UK MOD's postwar 'interventions':
Indonesia (1945), Oman (1957), Nyasaland (now Malawi, 1959), Brunei (1962), East Africa - Kenya, Uganda and Tanzani (1964), Anguilla (1969) and Jordan (1970)....
Not to mention their covert operations.
I'm out of chars (char limit)
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@element@mastodon.matrix.org @aral@mastodon.ar.al @mpsi@toot.lv thanks for clarifying this. Your original message ("we sell encrypted messaging services") was actually quite ambiguous and didn't specify what kind of "encrypted messaging" you were selling.
Would you also be so kind to clarify if this point:
We don’t sell to organisations who are committing human rights abuses (i.e. abusive organisations within a government, even if the wider government itself isn’t in scope)
Means that ICE is a customer (or potential customer) for you?
And this:
We don’t sell to governments who are under economic sanctions by the UK/EU/US governments.
Does it mean that e.g. Israel may be a customer for you?
I ask not because I am against FOSS products collaborating with governments or law enforcement. But because I acknowledge that once that door is open there are many slippery slopes and a bit more clarify about your "customers" may be due.
