O
@helge @iamkonstantin Yes, but you are also knee-deep in it for 30 years and have made several technological transitions over the decades.
Looks at it from someone else’s perspective who looks from outside. Why should you know 3 different UI frameworks to achieve a good product experience?
I don't think it’s a conceptual question about the Framework. It’s about judging the final results of all these efforts after 7 years.
@iamkonstantin @helge We can only speculate. Looking at how the German automobile industry handled it, I got the feeling it's easy to ignore these problems as long as you make money and your "more" important KPIs are going up.
Up until it's too late and your problems are so fundamentally rooted deep that there is no fixing of it anymore.
@helge @iamkonstantin Yeah, I mean I'm the same. I value these things as well, but I also don't want to fall into denialism that other things I don't like are bad.
I mean, it's possible to write a good SwiftUI app, but I also hit the wall and had to pull up custom Navigation Stack, wrap stuff into NSCollectionViews and write things in CoreAnimation to achieve it.
After so many years, this should not be the state. (Now here is my shameless self promotion. 
)
@helge @iamkonstantin A native app is not necessarily a better app. We've seen dumpster fire on both sides. Probably comes down to engineering talent.
I think OpenAI apps are a good benchmark. The ChatGPT is made in SwiftUI (afaik) and Codex in Electron. It's a good comparison within the same org.
SwiftUI is now 7 years old and on macOS there is still a ton of broken stuff. Should we give it another 7 years or what.
@helge @iamkonstantin Resource consumption seems to be okay. SwiftUI apps on macOS are worse. (just click a bit around in NavigationStack and let it bloat up)
Standards control is a low bar since really only a minority cares about it.
It's a good app and puts native apps made with the latest stack to shame. No denying it.
@iamkonstantin Pretty good that it came so far. If someone is to blame, then it's Apple in their arrogance.
I gave Codex a try.
Besides working pretty well, it’s actually also a very, very good Mac app made with Electron. At first glance, it’s almost indistinguishable from a native app and is very, very performant.
The fact that a cross-platform framework that spins up an entire web browser works better than the native stack of the company that invented it says more about Apple than about Electron.
#apple #swiftui #macosdev #electron #codex
@randahl That’s mostly of the hearing. At this point I believe it’s a briefing within MAGA how to behave in these hearing, since it’s always the same pattern.
Maybe it’s the European in me, but if I don’t see a name and an address on a website of your product, I ain’t buying from you.
@bytebro Yeah and politicians are still close to them. Even in Austria with their ex Chancellor Kurz or Germany with CDU Leader Jens Spahn. Not even starting with Poland or Hungary.
In case you are wondering who celebrated (and influenced) the Brexit and put the UK into missery. Guess who? Billionaires.
#brexit #thiel #billionaires #uk
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00824843.pdf