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  3. Hot take: good riddance.

Hot take: good riddance.

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  • Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
    wrote last edited by
    #50

    @bruce@darkmoon.social @vkc@linuxmom.net pro-tip: it's impossible to tell intentions of people over text. tone indicators are the way to go 🙂

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    • Simon EiltingE Simon Eilting

      @vkc They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason. My first thought was "they are going to drop support for it in the future and then I'm going to have to find a new DE again, what a headache".

      Of course they have the right to do whatever they please but it shouldn't be surprising that the existing users whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

      Whether they always hit the right tone with their complaints is another matter, to be sure.

      Simon EiltingE This user is from outside of this forum
      Simon EiltingE This user is from outside of this forum
      Simon Eilting
      wrote last edited by
      #51

      @vkc I also had no idea people were having trouble with middle-button paste, until I saw people's reactions to this change.

      It's such a delightful little helper, saves 2 keyboard interactions, doesn't ever paste formatting, gives me an extra buffer... and I don't recall ever having trouble with it since Firefox stopped opening everything pasted into it as a URL, many years ago.

      Now I wonder what it is that I can't get used to that everybody else thinks is the best thing ever.

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      • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

        Anyway, if you like GNOME and their design concepts, you're awesome and totally a valid user of Linux.

        Sick of the absurd nonsense that says otherwise.

        InterestingMoo9 This user is from outside of this forum
        InterestingMoo9 This user is from outside of this forum
        InterestingMoo
        wrote last edited by
        #52

        @vkc ive been playing around with cosmic...its a gnome variant I'd say with tiling toggle per workspace. Very nice themeing features as well. Very new, but functional and snappy

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        • SaorsaS Saorsa
          It's frustration by the community using GNOME as they feel their interests aren't considered in the development process. This is a natural outcome in sociology.

          When you use something, you typically have a vested interest in the prosperity of it. People tend to get frustrated when they feel ignored and some are passionate enough about it to voice their discontent.

          I did the very same with you previously regarding paywalling your community.

          *Edited.

          @vkc@linuxmom.net
          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
          wrote last edited by
          #53

          @Saorsa@neondystopia.world @vkc@linuxmom.net worth noting most of those people dont use GNOME

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          • D This user is from outside of this forum
            D This user is from outside of this forum
            Ethin Probst
            wrote last edited by
            #54

            @vkc Agreed. Although I wish wayland actually cared about accessibility

            Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T EmiE 2 Replies Last reply
            0
            • Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
              Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
              Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
              wrote last edited by
              #55

              @theodric@social.linux.pizza @vkc@linuxmom.net You're talking as if the desktop hurt you personally.

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              • Simon EiltingE Simon Eilting

                @vkc They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason. My first thought was "they are going to drop support for it in the future and then I'm going to have to find a new DE again, what a headache".

                Of course they have the right to do whatever they please but it shouldn't be surprising that the existing users whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

                Whether they always hit the right tone with their complaints is another matter, to be sure.

                Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                wrote last edited by
                #56

                @eseilt@mastodon.scot @vkc@linuxmom.net

                They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason.

                https://xkcd.com/1172/

                whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

                Is clicking some button difficult?

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                • Janne MorenJ Janne Moren

                  @vkc
                  I've used Linux since 1995. I use it personally for fun, and I've used it professionally for 30 years, incuding some of the largest computers on earth. And I've used middle-click for that entire time.

                  I love using Gnome, *because* it doesn't overwhelm me with options. It gets out of the way. And I think removing middle-click is the right decision. The utility just isn't worth the confusion - two clipboards and accidental middle-clicks still confuse me.

                  Janne MorenJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  Janne MorenJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  Janne Moren
                  wrote last edited by
                  #57

                  @vkc
                  In general, being consistent, following standards and conforming to peoples expectations is more important than being optimal, in any sense.

                  A great example is car control layout. The current two (or three) pedals and wheel layout can probably be improved. But not improved enough that it's worth disrupting the training and muscle memory of a billion people.

                  Basic desktop controls are the same. Being consistent across all desktops is better than being optimal.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                    wrote last edited by
                    #58

                    @glent@aus.social @vkc@linuxmom.net

                    What fuels the anger is the annoyance at the lack of reflection within Gnome of its role in the failure of desktop Linux.

                    Dude, are you fucking serious? 4% and constantly growing is a failure?

                    It's some project made by volunteers in their free time, people who are still personally offended GNOME 2 era is gone are owed NOTHING.

                    Most notably it's insular design choices in Gnome 3, and the early shipment of that non-ready software, reducing Linux's share of the market from MacOS levels to a third of that.

                    What the fuck are you talking about? Serious question.

                    Today, yet another insular design choice by Gnome

                    Ah yes, because surely feature that is constant source of confusion to more people that can be counted is insulated from the user base. If we sticked to the desires of loud minorities, we would get nowhere.

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                    • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

                      The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

                      Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

                      It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                      chipa
                      wrote last edited by
                      #59

                      @vkc totally agree, i usually listen this type of hate from Linux desktop gatekeepers. Looks like a sect

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                      • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

                        Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                        I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                        A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                        https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                        Jeff CloughJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jeff CloughJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Jeff Clough
                        wrote last edited by
                        #60

                        @vkc Oh ffs no! Middle click under X has never meant "Paste". It has always meant "Insert the Primary Selection here". Any change to this will break my workflow. For those of you who, for youth or for newness, have no idea what I'm talking about, this is a good write up: https://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html

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                        • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

                          Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                          I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                          A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                          https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                          KristellK This user is from outside of this forum
                          KristellK This user is from outside of this forum
                          Kristell
                          wrote last edited by
                          #61
                          They really said "I implore the GNOME team to spend a day using Windows with just your keyboard, it's useful" about them removing a feature from the mouse on Linux?
                          I get that other tools can have some useful features, but... I don't see how that is relevant to the rest of the article at all?
                          I'm also not a fan of arguments from tradition in general. ddate was included in util-linux until 2012(ish, I've also seen 2011), despite not really belonging there.
                          Keeping it as an opt-in feature is what I think should happen, personally. I didn't even really look into disabling it, but I won't miss it
                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

                            Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                            I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                            A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                            https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                            Dr. Evan J. GowanD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Dr. Evan J. GowanD This user is from outside of this forum
                            Dr. Evan J. Gowan
                            wrote last edited by
                            #62

                            @vkc Recently I noticed that it has been disabled. It is frustrating that there is no setting for this behaviour because I always use it and it means I now have to do more clicks or a keyboard action to copy and paste in the terminal.

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                            • Veronica ExplainsV This user is from outside of this forum
                              Veronica ExplainsV This user is from outside of this forum
                              Veronica Explains
                              wrote last edited by
                              #63

                              @glent what?

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                              • RolandR Roland

                                @vkc I agree about making it opt-in, but given the legacy they ought to show it in the settings app not in some config file. If you upgrade your OS and it doesn't work like it's always worked before, it's reasonable to expect you could look in the mouse settings next to cursor and scroll speed

                                Veronica ExplainsV This user is from outside of this forum
                                Veronica ExplainsV This user is from outside of this forum
                                Veronica Explains
                                wrote last edited by
                                #64

                                @rappscal I tend to agree, put it in the settings app, *and* I'd argue that the best behavior would be to only disable it on fresh installs, not change it on an upgrade (I don't know how feasible that is, I'm not a GNOME dev).

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                                • SaorsaS Saorsa
                                  There is a vested interest by numerous groups within the free and open source community to take Linux in a direction that not everyone will agree with. GNOME happens to be one such group and tends to catch a lot of flak due to their unwillingness to compromise on their principles. Something that has at times caused complications in the projects they collaborate on such as Wayland.

                                  Ultimately, we have a difference in opinion when it comes to communities and their responsibility. I believe that a community has a responsibility to tend to the needs and interests of the people from which it consists. As a YouTuber for example, you would be nothing without your audience and as such you may have a vested interest to appease them.

                                  GNOME is held accountable only to the developers and people within their foundation and not the community. This creates a disconnect where people feel they are being ignored. When the users of your software make that discontent known and you continue to ignore it rather than address the issue, it festers resentment. That resentment builds up into the sentiment that some people have towards GNOME today.

                                  Sure, they can always just use COSMIC which has some feature parity to GNOME. But that isn't the point. In order to maintain a healthy community, some concessions are necessary and the cause and effect of GNOME refusing to do so is the sentiment people hold towards them.

                                  @vkc@linuxmom.net
                                  Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #65

                                  @Saorsa@neondystopia.world @vkc@linuxmom.net

                                  GNOME is held accountable only to the developers and people within their foundation and not the community

                                  GNOME is a project made out of volunteers, and helding volunteers "accountable" isn't ethical. If someone wants to take part if developing GNOME, or project in its proximity, there is guide https://welcome.gnome.org/ for people interested in contributing.

                                  In fact, feedback is valuable, too. As long as it's respectful.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • D Ethin Probst

                                    @vkc Agreed. Although I wish wayland actually cared about accessibility

                                    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #66

                                    @draeand@the-gdn.net @vkc@linuxmom.net ehhhhhh…

                                    https://tesk.page/2025/06/18/its-true-we-dont-care-about-accessibility-on-linux/

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                                    • alexa kay 🕊️🌿L alexa kay 🕊️🌿

                                      @vkc
                                      Like, give it a week and an extension to bring back middle click will be published, and harmony will be restored 🤞

                                      Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #67

                                      @lxak@goblin.technology @vkc@linuxmom.net Why extension? There are other ways to do it

                                      alexa kay 🕊️🌿L 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Veronica ExplainsV Veronica Explains

                                        Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                                        I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                                        A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                                        https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                                        Diogo ConstantinoD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Diogo ConstantinoD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Diogo Constantino
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #68

                                        @vkc I love the middle click, I've been using it for about 26 years, and I think its one of my favourite features. I'll be annoyed if it goes away.

                                        I'm totally ok with making it optional...

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Stewart RussellS Stewart Russell

                                          @vkc not when you have muscle memory going back to the 1980s with middle click

                                          not when the distro(s) you like have it as the default desktop

                                          not when the other desktops are just a heap of no

                                          Gnome tried to get rid of icons on the desktop a few years ago. User pressure brought them back (admittedly through some pretty foul shell hacks)

                                          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:T This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Victoria :neocat_flag_trans::spinny_cat_lesbian:
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #69

                                          @scruss@xoxo.zone @vkc@linuxmom.net

                                          Gnome tried to get rid of icons on the desktop a few years ago. User pressure brought them back (admittedly through some pretty foul shell hacks)

                                          That happened with release of GNOME 3, in 2011 and GNOME never brought them back.

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