Tesla convicted 18 times and ordered to pay thousands for failing to help UK police with investigations
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Tesla convicted 18 times and ordered to pay thousands for failing to help UK police with investigations
In each case, when British police officers tried to track down the details of speeding Tesla drivers, their letters went unanswered and the forces ended up prosecuting the company itself
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/tesla-elon-musk-car-convicted-5HjdR8N_2/
We all know they have that information and they have telemetry down to the microsecond
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@cstross @jaark @coral Yes, that's what I'm getting at
I thought vehicle registration papers named the keeper - so the owner, or the lessee - rather than strictly the owner. It's weird that Tesla would need to divulge the vehicles' keepers rather than that being declared at the point of "sale"; I didn't think that was legally allowed. -
@cstross I could absolutely see this as an excellent argument for speeding fines as a percentage-of-assets thing rather than a fixed cost thing. That might possibly get their attention a little sooner.
@wordshaper @cstross for more egregious violations (90-100 mph+ on motorway or 50 mph+ in built up areas) they are already are proportional to income, albeit with a cap of £1500 on local roads and £2500 on motorways. Still a large chunk out of anyone but the richest person's income..
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@cstross @jaark @coral Yes, that's what I'm getting at
I thought vehicle registration papers named the keeper - so the owner, or the lessee - rather than strictly the owner. It's weird that Tesla would need to divulge the vehicles' keepers rather than that being declared at the point of "sale"; I didn't think that was legally allowed. -
@wordshaper @cstross for more egregious violations (90-100 mph+ on motorway or 50 mph+ in built up areas) they are already are proportional to income, albeit with a cap of £1500 on local roads and £2500 on motorways. Still a large chunk out of anyone but the richest person's income..
@vfrmedia @wordshaper Pshaw! The heaviest motoring fine I've heard of was in Finland where some techbro-investor-class dude was speeding so egregiously he got dinged for roughly 40,000 euros.
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@vfrmedia @wordshaper Pshaw! The heaviest motoring fine I've heard of was in Finland where some techbro-investor-class dude was speeding so egregiously he got dinged for roughly 40,000 euros.
@cstross @wordshaper yes, Finland does not have the maximum income cap. Interestingly ISTR he simply paid the fine, and didn't even whine about traffic laws or his freedom being restricted like folk in UK tend to do..
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@cstross @wordshaper yes, Finland does not have the maximum income cap. Interestingly ISTR he simply paid the fine, and didn't even whine about traffic laws or his freedom being restricted like folk in UK tend to do..
@vfrmedia @cstross Percentage of income with a cap is eh. Percentage of income *without* a cap is better. Percentage of gross income, or possibly assets, without a cap is best.
Tesla not going to respond to these things? 0.5% of gross assets or gross revenue per incident seems likely to make them take at least some notice.
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@vfrmedia @wordshaper Pshaw! The heaviest motoring fine I've heard of was in Finland where some techbro-investor-class dude was speeding so egregiously he got dinged for roughly 40,000 euros.
@cstross @vfrmedia @wordshaper even tho we have multiple 100+KEUR fines here in .fi, seems like .ch still takes the cake with a 1.1 MEUR one.
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@cstross Ah, that makes sense - rentals or loans rather than leases. I was imagining they were pretending that they were fleet cars or something. Thanks for clarifying that.
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@jbenjamint @mstrife @cstross Yes, it would mean that, and good riddance. We live in too much of a surveillance society as it is. If someone is a genuine danger to others, they will come to the attention of competent law enforcement.
@SteveFoerster @jbenjamint @mstrife @cstross photographic traffic enforcement that is set up to only record when an offense is detected, reviewed by a human for false positives, that allows due process for cases where a false positive slipped through the human, and that is set up primarily to discourage unsafe actions rather than generate revenue (as many US traffic cameras are) is *greatly* preferable for safety than having someone chase the car down (increasing danger for everyone on the path of the chase) to stop it.
(and, I know this is the UK, not the US, but in the US, that cop would always be armed. plenty of people have lost their lives as a result of trigger-happy cops doing routine traffic stops.) -
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@cstross Tesla sucks and Elon is a terrible human being, but honestly, I pretty much prefer my car manufacturer not giving my data to the police, ever. Imagine them prosecuting women suspected of abortion, for example.
Of course I'd rather have my car to not send any data anywhere, but I don't think there are any new cars that respect your privacy.
@mstrife @cstross If I have to buy one of those all spying all the time cars, I'd start by disconnecting the antenna. Then I'd hunt for the hard drive (usually behind the glove box), because repair shops like to download all that data and upload it to the vendor.
But not everyone can do that, and if shops started doing it for customers, I'm sure the car companies would sue them for violating some sort of contract. If that failed, they'd pay Congress for a new law.
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@SteveFoerster @jbenjamint @mstrife @cstross photographic traffic enforcement that is set up to only record when an offense is detected, reviewed by a human for false positives, that allows due process for cases where a false positive slipped through the human, and that is set up primarily to discourage unsafe actions rather than generate revenue (as many US traffic cameras are) is *greatly* preferable for safety than having someone chase the car down (increasing danger for everyone on the path of the chase) to stop it.
(and, I know this is the UK, not the US, but in the US, that cop would always be armed. plenty of people have lost their lives as a result of trigger-happy cops doing routine traffic stops.)@bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint @cstross That might be better, if one could reasonably trust government to do so well. You'll have to forgive me if I'm all out of trust.
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@djr2024 Likely, but Tesla is the registered keeper of these cars—under UK law if you own a car that's caught speeding, you are liable unless you tell the cops who was driving at the time! Which Tesla failed to do. It's a slam-dunk (law exists to stop ass-hats setting up a shell company to own their car so they can speed with impunity).
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@bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint @cstross That might be better, if one could reasonably trust government to do so well. You'll have to forgive me if I'm all out of trust.
@SteveFoerster @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint "Not all governments" behave like the US one, which is basically 1960s third-world levels of bigotry, hate, and corruption (and was that *before* Trump).
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@SteveFoerster @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint "Not all governments" behave like the US one, which is basically 1960s third-world levels of bigotry, hate, and corruption (and was that *before* Trump).
@cstross @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint The UK, which literally left the EU in a popular referendum in an attempt to curtail immigration, is a glass house in this regard.
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@cstross @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint The UK, which literally left the EU in a popular referendum in an attempt to curtail immigration, is a glass house in this regard.
@SteveFoerster @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint The referendum wasn't an attempt to curtail immigration: it was swung by an anti-austerity protest vote against David fucking Cameron, who had called it.
Also: methinks you're trying to deflect. Why are you defending Trump and ICE?
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@SteveFoerster @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint The referendum wasn't an attempt to curtail immigration: it was swung by an anti-austerity protest vote against David fucking Cameron, who had called it.
Also: methinks you're trying to deflect. Why are you defending Trump and ICE?
@cstross @bhtooefr @mstrife @jbenjamint Let me get this straight: I'm supposedly the one deflecting, but you see fit to ask a deliberately offensive "have you stopped beating your wife" style question? If you're going to stoop to cheap rhetorical tricks, at least don't use mutually exclusive ones.
For the record, I loathe Trump and ICE. And to bring this full circle, that's why I've long been opposed to the sort of mass surveillance society that you're foolishly cheering on, because subjecting us all to a panopticon isn't about safety, it's about empowering those like Trump and his latter-day SS, who seek to control and dominate people.
