The chatter in my TL suggests that we are inching closer to the point where “Trump killed Epstein” becomes a thinkable thought in the mainstream, scrawled on toilet stalls and dumpsters across the USA as a routine rallying cry.
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*ahem*
didn't he?
what are the odds that Jean-Luc Brunel ―Epstein’s French counterpart, business partner and confederate― also ends up also dead in prison?
how convenient for the oligarchy that the two guys who were coordinating their crimes in Europe and the Américas end up dead in prison while awaiting prosecution ―which would have forced evidence discovery to be presented to and recorded by the courts.
yeah, no. those were not coincidental suicides.
@blogdiva
I mean, it all sure smells fishier than a bucket of week-old chum. -
quite. why I think Ms Idaho might have more impact - it's one of *them* not some relatively abstract dead guy (in their world)
which also means nobody will really care anyway.
@maya_b @nazokiyoubinbou
I don’t think either one of these revelations alone would sink him — and that’s all kind of beside the point. What I’m saying in the thread is I’m sensing a new a shift in vibes here, maybe, and •that• is what can bring him down. If “Trump’s a pedo” and “Trump killed Epstein” breaks widely enough into general conversation, that’s…important. -
quite. why I think Ms Idaho might have more impact - it's one of *them* not some relatively abstract dead guy (in their world)
which also means nobody will really care anyway.
@maya_b @nazokiyoubinbou @inthehands As Paul said, it’s all about the vibes. I’d prefer Trump be taken down over something more meaningful to our democracy, like his ties to Russia, voter suppression, etc.—for the fascism to be clearly revealed—but those don’t get the vibes. Still, for him to be wrapped up in the very things that drove the QAnon conspiracies, maybe that’s not such a bad take-down either.
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@maya_b @nazokiyoubinbou @inthehands As Paul said, it’s all about the vibes. I’d prefer Trump be taken down over something more meaningful to our democracy, like his ties to Russia, voter suppression, etc.—for the fascism to be clearly revealed—but those don’t get the vibes. Still, for him to be wrapped up in the very things that drove the QAnon conspiracies, maybe that’s not such a bad take-down either.
@ramsey @maya_b @inthehands Oh every accusation from the right is a confession. That Trump was in on all that from the start was obvious even back then. The tricky part is just getting his base to see such a thing.
Like you say, the "vibe" is the issue. He somehow repeated the right words over and over and had them thinking only Democrats could be involved. Something about the break between then and now shifted stuff I guess? Or maybe not. I'll believe it when I see the base actually turn
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@ramsey @maya_b @inthehands Oh every accusation from the right is a confession. That Trump was in on all that from the start was obvious even back then. The tricky part is just getting his base to see such a thing.
Like you say, the "vibe" is the issue. He somehow repeated the right words over and over and had them thinking only Democrats could be involved. Something about the break between then and now shifted stuff I guess? Or maybe not. I'll believe it when I see the base actually turn
@nazokiyoubinbou @maya_b @inthehands My parents live in Marjorie Taylor Greene’s district. Given that she’s making the rounds, talking about how Trump has lied and is a fraud, I wonder how the vibes are among those who put her into office.
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@nazokiyoubinbou @maya_b @inthehands My parents live in Marjorie Taylor Greene’s district. Given that she’s making the rounds, talking about how Trump has lied and is a fraud, I wonder how the vibes are among those who put her into office.
@ramsey @maya_b @inthehands I would really like to see more of an inside view. I can say some of the diehard loyalists (like my frigging parents — they aren't openly MAGA but might as well be called closet MAGA) don't seem to have processed this yet.
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@ramsey @maya_b @inthehands I would really like to see more of an inside view. I can say some of the diehard loyalists (like my frigging parents — they aren't openly MAGA but might as well be called closet MAGA) don't seem to have processed this yet.
@nazokiyoubinbou @ramsey @maya_b
It will first take the form of people just getting a little quieter about Trump. Then they won’t really be talking about him. Then, after an interval, obviously he killed Epstein and they never really liked him.
Gratifying mea culpas will be few and far between.
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@celeduc
The thing is, is probably •is• literally unknowable, in “grassy knoll” territory or worse — and, per the thread, if it shifts him in the collective imagination, knowability won’t matter a bit.FWIW it isn't unknowable: bureaucracy is the art of covering up violence as statecraft.
the problem is, USA doesn’t have a true 4th estate.
union busting, pension buyouts & hedge-funded newspapers got rid of 3 generations of journalists who understood statecraft; who were trained to look at bureaucracy as a coverup.
not a coincidence Reaganism meant the oligarchy spent billions funding false neutrality curriculums in science, tech & journalism.
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Facts didn’t build this collective delusion, and facts won’t puncture it.
So yeah, I’m trying to stay diligent about facts where facts matter. I’m trying to stay clear in my own head about what we •know• with high confidence as distinct from what merely seems •likely•.
And I’m also studying — with careful attention, as a serious matter — what popular imagination is doing to the “100% vibes” foundation of Trumpism. Popular imagination. Not the facts. The vibes.
/end
@inthehands
vibes are a type of fact - dependent on how we define themthe most basic understanding of vibes is sound vibrations. every sound has a frequency and resonance.
what will come of the resonance remains to be seen.
once people feel a wave we have an opportunity to influence others as to the significance of the waves and what moves should be next in response.
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The chatter in my TL suggests that we are inching closer to the point where “Trump killed Epstein” becomes a thinkable thought in the mainstream, scrawled on toilet stalls and dumpsters across the USA as a routine rallying cry.
1/
@inthehands
Who knows if Epstein actually died... minimal investigation?? Why a total lack of thoroughness for investigating the death of a significant party, or maybe there wasn't a death so there waa no need to investigate ... #Epstein #Coverup -
For a vibes-based cult of personality, it’s the kiss of death for a thought like “Trump killed Epstein” to become a mainstream refrain.
It’s an exit ramp from Trumpism.
4/
@inthehands Or it'll make him even more popular. "See? He really did break the Satanic Democratic Pedophile Ring(tm)!"
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Facts didn’t build this collective delusion, and facts won’t puncture it.
So yeah, I’m trying to stay diligent about facts where facts matter. I’m trying to stay clear in my own head about what we •know• with high confidence as distinct from what merely seems •likely•.
And I’m also studying — with careful attention, as a serious matter — what popular imagination is doing to the “100% vibes” foundation of Trumpism. Popular imagination. Not the facts. The vibes.
/end
@inthehands It didn't matter that Marie Antoinette didn't ever say "Let them eat cake!"*, her general attitude and the feelings were against her by the point she got into the carriage to flee. Or, as somebody else said: "People can forget what you did, but never how you made them feel."
*The quote originally wasn't even attributed to her, and it was not cake, but brioche, which is a kind of bread, but that's historical sentiment for you.
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The chatter in my TL suggests that we are inching closer to the point where “Trump killed Epstein” becomes a thinkable thought in the mainstream, scrawled on toilet stalls and dumpsters across the USA as a routine rallying cry.
1/
he wouldn't have killed him without Mossad's blessing
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The chatter in my TL suggests that we are inching closer to the point where “Trump killed Epstein” becomes a thinkable thought in the mainstream, scrawled on toilet stalls and dumpsters across the USA as a routine rallying cry.
1/
"But not in a good way"
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Who knows whether somebody actually •did• have Epstein murdered, Trump or otherwise. It’s likely we’ll never have either a smoking gun or a definitive rebuttal.
And that may not matter — I’m talking about •vibes•, about the Overton Window of conspiracy theories, about just how many people are so sick Epstein and Trump and all these people that they don’t need any more evidence to want all their legacies flushed down history’s toilet.
2/
@inthehands Unless his cellmate, the ex-agent incarcerated for strangling people, confesses the murder.
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For a vibes-based cult of personality, it’s the kiss of death for a thought like “Trump killed Epstein” to become a mainstream refrain.
It’s an exit ramp from Trumpism.
4/
@inthehands it would be funny if the same q-fed reality-tunneling that aided his rise to power also helped take him down without intersecting with the real world at all
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@blogdiva
I mean, it all sure smells fishier than a bucket of week-old chum.@inthehands for reals.
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The chatter in my TL suggests that we are inching closer to the point where “Trump killed Epstein” becomes a thinkable thought in the mainstream, scrawled on toilet stalls and dumpsters across the USA as a routine rallying cry.
1/
@inthehands it could have been any of his 'clients' - any one of them have enough
to bribe/pay for a hit.
#epstein -
Who knows whether somebody actually •did• have Epstein murdered, Trump or otherwise. It’s likely we’ll never have either a smoking gun or a definitive rebuttal.
And that may not matter — I’m talking about •vibes•, about the Overton Window of conspiracy theories, about just how many people are so sick Epstein and Trump and all these people that they don’t need any more evidence to want all their legacies flushed down history’s toilet.
2/
@inthehands the chatter in my timeline is different: Epstein isn't dead, the files corroborate some wild 4chan thread and de anonymous the poster.
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Facts •do• matter. The thing is, vibes matter too.
This thread was prompted by this story (ht @tomcapuder and @StillIRise1963), which is •so• tantalizing and so aligned with what I •want• to be true that all my skepticism alarm bells are going off:
https://www.rawstory.com/jeffrey-epstein-2675132346/
If if we’re holding a trial or writing a history, well…I’ll wait for the dust to settle, expecting this not to hold up. Facts matter. But — no, not “but”…AND…
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@inthehands i personally wouldn’t include the guy who writes press releases into a conspiracy to fake a billionaires suicide.
