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  3. We'll see how I feel in the morning, but for now i seem to have convinced myself to actually read that fuckin anthropic paper

We'll see how I feel in the morning, but for now i seem to have convinced myself to actually read that fuckin anthropic paper

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  • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

    I just

    I'm not actually in the habit of reading academic research papers like this. Is it normal to begin these things by confidently asserting your priors as fact, unsupported by anything in the study?

    I suppose I should do the same, because there's no way it's not going to inform my read on this

    Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
    Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
    Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    @jenniferplusplus No it is not. That kind of thing is left to the realm of "self-publishing". Was this thing peer reviewed?

    JenniferplusplusJ 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

      I just

      I'm not actually in the habit of reading academic research papers like this. Is it normal to begin these things by confidently asserting your priors as fact, unsupported by anything in the study?

      I suppose I should do the same, because there's no way it's not going to inform my read on this

      JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
      JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
      Jenniferplusplus
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      "AI" is not actually a technology, in the way people would commonly understand that term.

      If you're feeling extremely generous, you could say that AI is a marketing term for a loose and shifting bundle of technologies that have specific useful applications.

      I am not feeling so generous.

      AI is a technocratic political project for the purpose of industrializing knowledge work. The details of how it works are a distant secondary concern to the effect it has, which is to enclose and capture all knowledge work and make it dependent on capital.

      JenniferplusplusJ mkjM Wulfy—Speaker to the machinesN josh g.J 4 Replies Last reply
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      • Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷

        @jenniferplusplus No it is not. That kind of thing is left to the realm of "self-publishing". Was this thing peer reviewed?

        JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
        JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
        Jenniferplusplus
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        @seanwbruno It is not. https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

        Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

          @seanwbruno It is not. https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷
          wrote last edited by
          #6

          @jenniferplusplus

          MikalaiM 1 Reply Last reply
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          • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

            @seanwbruno It is not. https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

            Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
            Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
            Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            @jenniferplusplus You have entirely more stamina than I have. I just read the first sentence of the abstract and emitted a guffaw and exclaimed, out loud for the spouse to hear, "Citation needed!".

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

              "AI" is not actually a technology, in the way people would commonly understand that term.

              If you're feeling extremely generous, you could say that AI is a marketing term for a loose and shifting bundle of technologies that have specific useful applications.

              I am not feeling so generous.

              AI is a technocratic political project for the purpose of industrializing knowledge work. The details of how it works are a distant secondary concern to the effect it has, which is to enclose and capture all knowledge work and make it dependent on capital.

              JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
              JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
              Jenniferplusplus
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              So, back to the paper.

              "How AI Impacts Skill Formation"
              https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

              The very first sentence of the abstract:

              > AI assistance produces significant productivity gains across professional domains, particularly for novice workers.

              1. The evidence for this is mixed, and the effect is small.
              2. That's not even the purpose of this study. The design of the study doesn't support drawing conclusions in this area.

              Of course, the authors will repeat this claim frequently. Which brings us back to MY priors, which is that this is largely a political document.

              aoanlaA JenniferplusplusJ CassandrichD 3 Replies Last reply
              0
              • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                "AI" is not actually a technology, in the way people would commonly understand that term.

                If you're feeling extremely generous, you could say that AI is a marketing term for a loose and shifting bundle of technologies that have specific useful applications.

                I am not feeling so generous.

                AI is a technocratic political project for the purpose of industrializing knowledge work. The details of how it works are a distant secondary concern to the effect it has, which is to enclose and capture all knowledge work and make it dependent on capital.

                mkjM This user is from outside of this forum
                mkjM This user is from outside of this forum
                mkj
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                @jenniferplusplus How about not just capital, but also permission?

                Imagine a world in which "AI" is actually successful: it is widely, maybe even largely universally, adopted, and it actually works to deliver on its promises. (I *said* "imagine"! Bear with me.) In such a world, what happens to someone (person, company, country, whatever slicing you want to look at) who is *denied access to* this technology for whatever reason?

                The power held by those in control of allowing access to that tech…

                JenniferplusplusJ 1 Reply Last reply
                0
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                • mkjM mkj

                  @jenniferplusplus How about not just capital, but also permission?

                  Imagine a world in which "AI" is actually successful: it is widely, maybe even largely universally, adopted, and it actually works to deliver on its promises. (I *said* "imagine"! Bear with me.) In such a world, what happens to someone (person, company, country, whatever slicing you want to look at) who is *denied access to* this technology for whatever reason?

                  The power held by those in control of allowing access to that tech…

                  JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  Jenniferplusplus
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  @mkj Yeah, same thing. You can't use industrial machines without the permission of the owner.

                  mkjM 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                    So, back to the paper.

                    "How AI Impacts Skill Formation"
                    https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

                    The very first sentence of the abstract:

                    > AI assistance produces significant productivity gains across professional domains, particularly for novice workers.

                    1. The evidence for this is mixed, and the effect is small.
                    2. That's not even the purpose of this study. The design of the study doesn't support drawing conclusions in this area.

                    Of course, the authors will repeat this claim frequently. Which brings us back to MY priors, which is that this is largely a political document.

                    aoanlaA This user is from outside of this forum
                    aoanlaA This user is from outside of this forum
                    aoanla
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    @jenniferplusplus I like the fact that their own research doesn't fit their lazy claim you reference, and they spend a lot of time trying to work out how the claim can be true, even though their own evidence is against it (and more in line with the mixed evidence in the literature, as you say).

                    aoanlaA 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷

                      @jenniferplusplus

                      MikalaiM This user is from outside of this forum
                      MikalaiM This user is from outside of this forum
                      Mikalai
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      @seanwbruno @jenniferplusplus
                      Will "is peer reviewed" change validity/or-lack of the paper?
                      Should it?

                      Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S Kevin GranadeK 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                        @mkj Yeah, same thing. You can't use industrial machines without the permission of the owner.

                        mkjM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mkjM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mkj
                        wrote last edited by
                        #13

                        @jenniferplusplus True, but I think it's safe to say that it's very possible to go through a whole life without personally touching or needing to use any industrial machinery.

                        (To be clear: I'm not arguing against you here.)

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • MikalaiM Mikalai

                          @seanwbruno @jenniferplusplus
                          Will "is peer reviewed" change validity/or-lack of the paper?
                          Should it?

                          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
                          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S This user is from outside of this forum
                          Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷
                          wrote last edited by
                          #14

                          @mikalai @jenniferplusplus IMO, yes. However, reading the first sentence is enough for me to move on to spend my time on other things for the day.

                          MikalaiM 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • aoanlaA aoanla

                            @jenniferplusplus I like the fact that their own research doesn't fit their lazy claim you reference, and they spend a lot of time trying to work out how the claim can be true, even though their own evidence is against it (and more in line with the mixed evidence in the literature, as you say).

                            aoanlaA This user is from outside of this forum
                            aoanlaA This user is from outside of this forum
                            aoanla
                            wrote last edited by
                            #15

                            @jenniferplusplus it reminds me a bit of the famous thing with the Flat Earth Society people who spent $20k on an expensive laser gyroscope to "prove" that the Earth was not a rotating sphere... and then spent a lot of time being very confused and upset when, of course, it measured precisely what you'd expect from a rotating spherical Earth.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                              So, back to the paper.

                              "How AI Impacts Skill Formation"
                              https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.20245

                              The very first sentence of the abstract:

                              > AI assistance produces significant productivity gains across professional domains, particularly for novice workers.

                              1. The evidence for this is mixed, and the effect is small.
                              2. That's not even the purpose of this study. The design of the study doesn't support drawing conclusions in this area.

                              Of course, the authors will repeat this claim frequently. Which brings us back to MY priors, which is that this is largely a political document.

                              JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              Jenniferplusplus
                              wrote last edited by
                              #16

                              And now for a short break

                              JenniferplusplusJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷S Sean 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷

                                @mikalai @jenniferplusplus IMO, yes. However, reading the first sentence is enough for me to move on to spend my time on other things for the day.

                                MikalaiM This user is from outside of this forum
                                MikalaiM This user is from outside of this forum
                                Mikalai
                                wrote last edited by
                                #17

                                @seanwbruno @jenniferplusplus
                                I must apologize for focusing on peer review, abstracting from article itself.
                                But, this "force-fed GenAI and slop" moment is to ask ourselves, about how we assess statements, ideas, words.
                                If an article is in area with only 50 persons in it from the whole globe, "review" should be, 5 upvotes, 7 downvotes, at moment x, and then you decide to, spend time to comprehend article, or to wait. When this is more explicit, then we have better chances, as civilization, imho

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • MikalaiM Mikalai

                                  @seanwbruno @jenniferplusplus
                                  Will "is peer reviewed" change validity/or-lack of the paper?
                                  Should it?

                                  Kevin GranadeK This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Kevin GranadeK This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Kevin Granade
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @mikalai @seanwbruno @jenniferplusplus the thing that is a positive signal is that it *survived* peer review, which implies that there are multiple, knowledgeable, independent scientists in the area of study of the paper that read it and came to the conclusion, "the conclusions stated by this paper are supported by the data and arguments presented in the paper".

                                  This paper would not survive peer review.

                                  It is a flawed system but it is not worthless.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                                    I just

                                    I'm not actually in the habit of reading academic research papers like this. Is it normal to begin these things by confidently asserting your priors as fact, unsupported by anything in the study?

                                    I suppose I should do the same, because there's no way it's not going to inform my read on this

                                    mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)A This user is from outside of this forum
                                    mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)A This user is from outside of this forum
                                    mx alex tax1a - 2020 (6)
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #19

                                    @jenniferplusplus no, usually academic studies have a null hypothesis of "the effect we're trying to study does not exist" and are required to provide evidence sufficient to reject that hypothesis

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                                      "AI" is not actually a technology, in the way people would commonly understand that term.

                                      If you're feeling extremely generous, you could say that AI is a marketing term for a loose and shifting bundle of technologies that have specific useful applications.

                                      I am not feeling so generous.

                                      AI is a technocratic political project for the purpose of industrializing knowledge work. The details of how it works are a distant secondary concern to the effect it has, which is to enclose and capture all knowledge work and make it dependent on capital.

                                      Wulfy—Speaker to the machinesN This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Wulfy—Speaker to the machinesN This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Wulfy—Speaker to the machines
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #20

                                      @jenniferplusplus

                                      #regulateai

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                                        And now for a short break

                                        JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Jenniferplusplus
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #21

                                        I have eaten. I may be _slightly_ less cranky.

                                        Ok! The results section! For the paper "How AI Impacts Skill Formation"

                                        > we design a coding task and evaluation around a relatively new asynchronous Python library and conduct randomized experiments to understand the impact
                                        of AI assistance on task completion time and skill development

                                        ...

                                        Task completion time. Right. So, unless the difference is large enough that it could change whether or not people can learn things at all in a given practice or instructional period, I don't know why we're concerned with task completion time.

                                        Well, I mean, I have a theory. It's because "AI makes you more productive" is the central justification behind the political project, and this is largely a political document.

                                        JenniferplusplusJ [ade]K 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • JenniferplusplusJ Jenniferplusplus

                                          I have eaten. I may be _slightly_ less cranky.

                                          Ok! The results section! For the paper "How AI Impacts Skill Formation"

                                          > we design a coding task and evaluation around a relatively new asynchronous Python library and conduct randomized experiments to understand the impact
                                          of AI assistance on task completion time and skill development

                                          ...

                                          Task completion time. Right. So, unless the difference is large enough that it could change whether or not people can learn things at all in a given practice or instructional period, I don't know why we're concerned with task completion time.

                                          Well, I mean, I have a theory. It's because "AI makes you more productive" is the central justification behind the political project, and this is largely a political document.

                                          JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          JenniferplusplusJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Jenniferplusplus
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #22

                                          > We find that using AI assistance to complete
                                          tasks that involve this new library resulted in a reduction in the evaluation score by 17% or two grade
                                          points (Cohen’s d = 0.738, p = 0.010). Meanwhile, we did not find a statistically significant acceleration in
                                          completion time with AI assistance.

                                          I mean, that's an enormous effect. I'm very interested in the methods section, now.

                                          > Through an in-depth qualitative analysis where we watch the screen recordings of every participant in our
                                          main study, we explain the lack of AI productivity improvement through the additional time some participants
                                          invested in interacting with the AI assistant.

                                          ...

                                          Is this about learning, or is it about productivity!? God.

                                          > We attribute the gains in skill development of the control group to the process of encountering and subsequently resolving errors independently

                                          Hm. Learning with instruction is generally more effective than learning through struggle. A surface level read would suggest that the stochastic chatbot actually has a counter-instructional effect. But again, we'll see what the methods actually are.

                                          JenniferplusplusJ Paul CantrellI Cat HicksG catchC 4 Replies Last reply
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