Kyle Rittenhouse walked up to police carrying an assault weapon during protests in Kenosha, then killed people, and Conservatives called him a hero.
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@augieray I've been saying this. It has to be personal. The protests have to occur at the homes of those funding and insulated from it.
@bweller @augieray @Finitum @darwinwoodka Some of the direct action should go there too. Don't forget their yachts and golf clubs too.
That's a big part of how animal rights activists sank that puppy-killing vivisector Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS). It's also how Atlas was forced off Atlanta's Cop City project.
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@augieray @darwinwoodka Not sure I’m in that camp, but ok. Cook and Bezos were with Dump yesterday so that’s the direction many companies have taken. My view is that the non-MAGA coalition of the willing needs all the help we can get. That said, at some level we’re going to need a better de-Nazification program than they had after WWII.
@lawyersgunsnmoney @augieray @darwinwoodka They didn't use enough rope after WWII.
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@rpin42 You're not wrong, but we need to be clear that the answer is "non-violent protests." The response from police and officials is on them, not on the protesters.
@augieray @rpin42 Note that a lot of armed insurgencies occur as the fallback after a nonviolent protest movement is defeated by armed force.
Example: Iran going hot and heavy after security forces machinegun protesters.
The statistic that armed movements are less successful confuses correlation with causality. The armed movements of the world face a preselected subset of governments that have already committed themselves to defying people's demands whatever it takes. These regimes are much tougher nuts to crack so success rates will be lower.
Toughest of all is a long, bogged-down civil war of attrition that may be won by whichever side is best able to recruit fighters faster than the other side can kill, disable, or capture them. At least in those the government's own atrocities tend to boost recruiting for resistance forces.
That is referred to in one of the Hunger Games movies, where insurgents filming random battlefield footage for a propaganda film accidently catch the napalm bombing of a hospital full of wounded fighters, then shoot down two of the bombers and get that on video too. The resulting video gives the insurgents a huge boost, though the movie overcredits the effect of any one propaganda piece.
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@augieray My guess is that that research hinges on the fact that the people you're protesting against actually have a conscience and are not actively trying to Kill you.
@grumpydad @augieray I've said this many times but will now expand on it: you cannot lie down in front of a column of Nazi panzers and expect them to so much as slow down unless the driver in the lead tank himself both dislikes Hitler and is willing to risk his neck to do something about it.
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@augieray @rpin42 Note that a lot of armed insurgencies occur as the fallback after a nonviolent protest movement is defeated by armed force.
Example: Iran going hot and heavy after security forces machinegun protesters.
The statistic that armed movements are less successful confuses correlation with causality. The armed movements of the world face a preselected subset of governments that have already committed themselves to defying people's demands whatever it takes. These regimes are much tougher nuts to crack so success rates will be lower.
Toughest of all is a long, bogged-down civil war of attrition that may be won by whichever side is best able to recruit fighters faster than the other side can kill, disable, or capture them. At least in those the government's own atrocities tend to boost recruiting for resistance forces.
That is referred to in one of the Hunger Games movies, where insurgents filming random battlefield footage for a propaganda film accidently catch the napalm bombing of a hospital full of wounded fighters, then shoot down two of the bombers and get that on video too. The resulting video gives the insurgents a huge boost, though the movie overcredits the effect of any one propaganda piece.
@LukefromDC @augieray started well but The Hunger Games are a derivative work I believe?
#ItsNotReal Roger Hallam who I recommended earlier seems to think non-violent works even in situations where the administration starts killing. Any fighting back validates the aggressor -
@LukefromDC @augieray started well but The Hunger Games are a derivative work I believe?
#ItsNotReal Roger Hallam who I recommended earlier seems to think non-violent works even in situations where the administration starts killing. Any fighting back validates the aggressor@rpin42 @augieray THAT is something almost opposite my own beliefs-and my own experience. I believe that the more shit you take, the more shit you get. Appeasement and surrender are the road to slavery.
Nazi Germany was defeated on the battlefield, I am convinced stopping them by any other means was impossible.
To reject the right of people and nations threatened by Adolf Hitler to resist by armed force is to demand that they submit to the Holocaust. I believe nobody can ever be obligated to that.
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Kyle Rittenhouse walked up to police carrying an assault weapon during protests in Kenosha, then killed people, and Conservatives called him a hero.
Alex Pretti filmed officers during a protest, kept his handgun holstered, was wrestled to the ground, had his weapon taken away, and then was shot dead, and Conservatives are calling him a terrorist.
1/8
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@grumble209 I didn't say there were 100,000 ICE agents. I understand the parentheticals might make it a bit difficult to read, so removed, what I said was, "Trump has flooded Minnesota, which has an estimated undocumented population of around 100,000, with thousands of masked, armed agents."
@augieray My mistake - sorry. My point stands, though: the ICE agents visiting Minnesota live somewhere, and are not self-sufficient. They are deadly to the locals, and we need to keep eyes on them.
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@rpin42 @augieray THAT is something almost opposite my own beliefs-and my own experience. I believe that the more shit you take, the more shit you get. Appeasement and surrender are the road to slavery.
Nazi Germany was defeated on the battlefield, I am convinced stopping them by any other means was impossible.
To reject the right of people and nations threatened by Adolf Hitler to resist by armed force is to demand that they submit to the Holocaust. I believe nobody can ever be obligated to that.
@LukefromDC @augieray um going to quietly back out now. Big fan of non-violent direct-action and civil disobedience including general strikes, so I suppose if it were happening to me, I’d do my homework. It’s not me, yet, so I’ll focus on avoiding it. I feel for you in The States, it’s quite different where you are. Best of luck
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Kyle Rittenhouse walked up to police carrying an assault weapon during protests in Kenosha, then killed people, and Conservatives called him a hero.
Alex Pretti filmed officers during a protest, kept his handgun holstered, was wrestled to the ground, had his weapon taken away, and then was shot dead, and Conservatives are calling him a terrorist.
1/8
@augieray I really needed to read all of this today. Thank you for summarizing it so clearly.
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After all, this is the president who casually suggested a couple of weeks ago that “when you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election.” (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/five-takeaways-reuters-interview-president-trump-2026-01-15/#:~:text=%E2%80%9Cwhen%20you%20think%20of%20it%2C%20we%20shouldn%27t%20even%20have%20an%20election.%E2%80%9D)
Legal experts continue to assert Trump doesn't have the power to stop the midterms (https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/17/politics/midterm-elections-trump-2026-analysis), but this is a president who claims unlimited power, has ignored court orders and rulings, and is protected by a biased Supreme Court.
5/8
When cops write their own "administrative warrants" and don't enforce real judicial warrants if other cops say "go away", then a constitution is just a piece of paper.
The United States no longer exists for its people when its government has been siezed by a criminal gang, headed by a felon, whose word is law.
It no longer exists for other countries when it violates treaties and changes its position daily on the word of that same felon.
It's now the Formerly United States of America. #FUSA
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@lawyersgunsnmoney @augieray @darwinwoodka They didn't use enough rope after WWII.
@LukefromDC @lawyersgunsnmoney @augieray @darwinwoodka Or the Civil War. We should've hanged Jefferson Davis.
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Protests matter. Research has found that, "Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.” (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world) Yet, some of you can't be bothered to show up when protests and marches have occurred.
7/8
Im autistic. Leave me alone.
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Im autistic. Leave me alone.
Ps, blocking the road and damaging the library and bus stops makes me hate movements.
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Ps, blocking the road and damaging the library and bus stops makes me hate movements.
Making it to where I cant go home to take my meds wont make me stay at your protest but it will make me cause a scene that is embarrassing for me and you.
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Making it to where I cant go home to take my meds wont make me stay at your protest but it will make me cause a scene that is embarrassing for me and you.
You know that thing you hated the other day where you felt blamed by the whole world? Imagine posting “the silence of your friends” stuff with an autistic who goes silent reading it.
@roknrol -
Like imagine how I feel with “cant even be bothered to show up” if your protest is by design inaccessible.
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Like dude your protest blocked the road, was loud and had too many people. Of course I “couldn’t be bothered to show up” you fucked over the bus stop and you chose destroying my safe space as an action!
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@rpin42 You're not wrong, but we need to be clear that the answer is "non-violent protests." The response from police and officials is on them, not on the protesters.
Also, some of these books and studies on the effectiveness of nonviolence do NOT actually count property damage as violence, even though a lot of the people who DO consider that violence, like to cite such studies to bolster their arguments against, say, burning the 3rd Precinct. Which further complicates the debate.
