@freediverx @aral @element I'd like to write a somewhat detailed reply to your post, but can't do that now. I'll try to share it later. In short: there is a difference between China before and after Xi Jinping.

@freediverx @aral @element As for the gunboat diplomacy, China is increasingly keen on doing so. There is constant tension around Taiwan and a lot of bullying in the South China Sea.

@freediverx @aral @element Yes, they did enjoy a lot of improvement in the quality of life. But that era is over, as further improvement would require democratization, and the CPC decided otherwise.

@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element I think we all everywhere in the world need to find new ways of organizing ourselves politically and socially. All old models require a revision. And I am deeply convinced that any working solutions must be democratic.

@freediverx @aral @element No capitalist in China wields any influence over the actions of the police, unless the CPC sees their actions as aligned with its own goals.

@freediverx @aral @element Let's talk some more about China - I happen to know a little bit about this country from my personal experience of living there for quite a long time. Capital in China is clearly subordinated to the decisions of the Communist Party. There is simply no way that pure "capital" will give anyone political power there. In the contrary, there are many examples of successful "capitalists" being removed from any political influence just because the Party said so.

@freediverx @aral @element Capital is just one of the resources that are controlled by the political elite (or political body of citizens in actually democratic countries), and which can be used by them for their gains. At least this is my point of view.

@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element We won't become independent if we keep treating anything that happens in the US as some kind of the only possible future for ourselves.

And that is what I advocate even in this thread.

@MisuseCase @aral @element Oh, you don't have any arguments left?

@freediverx @aral @element Police protects capital in countries where the capital equals political power. Can we agree on that?

@MisuseCase @aral @element Each of these situations is an individual case and it should be solved as such by citizens of the relevant countries. This is how democracy is supposed to work.

The US urgently needs to solve its own crisis. Do that, abolish the police if you think it is a good solution, but please don't interpolate your situation to the rest of the world constantly.

@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element The position of the US is rapidly declining, and this is a chance for "vassals" to become actually independent.

@freediverx @aral @element In which countries, exactly?
For example, there is police in China, too. And they certainly don't serve "capital".

@freediverx Fight for that, this is the only way.

@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you have any personal experience of living in other countries than the US and encountering police violence?

@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you know that there are many different countries on this planet and some of them function much better than the US?

Imagine regaining effective, broadly inclusive democratic control where it was lost (or winning it where it was absent). Then the problem of slave-patrol mentality will be easy to solve. Otherwise, you will end up recreating the same thing under a new name. It's not the name that is the issue, it's the shape of the institution within societies that don't adhere to democratic standards.

@aral @element What we need is effective democratic control over all public institutions and social spaces, not abolishing police or other standard state institutions. And for that effective democratic control, we need open standards and open protocols, among other things. (I would even say they are indispensable, although the public discourse doesn't seem to understand that yet).

@aral Your position implies that the police is an enemy and that states shouldn't have any kind of law enforcement called "police". But can you pledge that you will never, ever call the police, nor expect any police intervention or involvement, no matter what?

States are human super-organisms and their existence is both necessary and unavoidable in our world. And states need a police force to be effective. @element