The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s.
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The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s. Here's what Denmark said about the ones they bought, and regret buying:
"They're in for repairs about half the time or even more," he said, "so the Americans have all the power of actually destroying our air force just by shutting down [parts] supplies."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/norad-canada-us-f35-9.7059800
@elasticsoul Thanks to #DonaldTheDeplorable #Trump the #F35 deal with #Canada is about to become the #FAFO
deal. Tough luck, #LockheedMartin. -
@elasticsoul @EricLawton Warning of “consequences to the defence pact” sounds exactly like gangster language. The US now only operates with threats and ‘preemptive’ strikes. Canada should think carefully about buying any equipment from a seller that can and will disable it at will.
@pedrobizbikedu @elasticsoul @EricLawton
Trust is more valuable than the dollar.
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The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s. Here's what Denmark said about the ones they bought, and regret buying:
"They're in for repairs about half the time or even more," he said, "so the Americans have all the power of actually destroying our air force just by shutting down [parts] supplies."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/norad-canada-us-f35-9.7059800
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The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s. Here's what Denmark said about the ones they bought, and regret buying:
"They're in for repairs about half the time or even more," he said, "so the Americans have all the power of actually destroying our air force just by shutting down [parts] supplies."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/norad-canada-us-f35-9.7059800
@elasticsoul A wild Gripen appears!
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The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s. Here's what Denmark said about the ones they bought, and regret buying:
"They're in for repairs about half the time or even more," he said, "so the Americans have all the power of actually destroying our air force just by shutting down [parts] supplies."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/norad-canada-us-f35-9.7059800
@elasticsoul oh... let's play this game:
"Because of the US tariffs, Canada has not enough money to buy F-35 Jets"
It makes no sense, but Trump does not make sense, so he will understand. -
@troy_frizzell @elasticsoul Filling the border with a cloud of dual-role drones, that can be used as artificial bird-strikes loaded with jagged tungsten crusty-os, or air-to-ground mobile claymores can be done for a fraction of the cost of a hangar full of dead F-35s.
@su_liam @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell
By my profoundly uninformed back of the napkin calculations, one should be able to scare up more than half million basic, disposable drones for the cost of one F35
I’m imagining the effect of lifting a cloud of a couple hundred of these into the flight path of a fighter jet, especially if they could be remotely detonated above the flight path to create a plume of shrapnel…
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@su_liam @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell
By my profoundly uninformed back of the napkin calculations, one should be able to scare up more than half million basic, disposable drones for the cost of one F35
I’m imagining the effect of lifting a cloud of a couple hundred of these into the flight path of a fighter jet, especially if they could be remotely detonated above the flight path to create a plume of shrapnel…
️@DavidM_yeg @su_liam @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell Yes. Ukraine defence against what was the second strongest army in the world (and now the second strongest in Russia) has completely changed the technology of war.
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@su_liam @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell
By my profoundly uninformed back of the napkin calculations, one should be able to scare up more than half million basic, disposable drones for the cost of one F35
I’m imagining the effect of lifting a cloud of a couple hundred of these into the flight path of a fighter jet, especially if they could be remotely detonated above the flight path to create a plume of shrapnel…
️@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell That’s how I’m seeing it. The one limitation I’m seeing is altitude. Modern aircraft might be able to fly above the cloud of cheap drones. But what would high altitude drones cost? If they cost 10 times as much as those cheap ones, that’s still like 50,000 drones to shove down the intakes of an attacker. Let’s be more conservative and say 10,000. That’s not a border cloud, but used judiciously it’s an F35 killer.
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@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell That’s how I’m seeing it. The one limitation I’m seeing is altitude. Modern aircraft might be able to fly above the cloud of cheap drones. But what would high altitude drones cost? If they cost 10 times as much as those cheap ones, that’s still like 50,000 drones to shove down the intakes of an attacker. Let’s be more conservative and say 10,000. That’s not a border cloud, but used judiciously it’s an F35 killer.
@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell And after each dead F-35, most of those can be reused. How many Canada geese with a clear and focussed goal of going up a jet intake does it take to kill a fighter? I’d say one could do it if it’s full of metal shurikens.
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@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell That’s how I’m seeing it. The one limitation I’m seeing is altitude. Modern aircraft might be able to fly above the cloud of cheap drones. But what would high altitude drones cost? If they cost 10 times as much as those cheap ones, that’s still like 50,000 drones to shove down the intakes of an attacker. Let’s be more conservative and say 10,000. That’s not a border cloud, but used judiciously it’s an F35 killer.
@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell Double or triple the price, so they don’t have to commit suicide and you have 3,000-5,000 angry killer high-altitude geese that can hunt aircraft again and again. If you could get it up to 100k suicide birds, nothing is flying without permission. Eight of the genuinely best planes in existence(not F-35s) won’t change the air supremacy state. 80,000 drones will ground the USAF.
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@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell Double or triple the price, so they don’t have to commit suicide and you have 3,000-5,000 angry killer high-altitude geese that can hunt aircraft again and again. If you could get it up to 100k suicide birds, nothing is flying without permission. Eight of the genuinely best planes in existence(not F-35s) won’t change the air supremacy state. 80,000 drones will ground the USAF.
@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell Realistically, they’ll have to be LOS controlled. Satellites will be denied, and the longer the range, the more effective the jamming. So the operators will be vulnerable, but if you divvy it up 50/50 between expensive anti-air and cheapass DP drones, that’s still 40k for air defense and(250,000 x 8)about 2 million flying claymores. Afghanistan was a snap…
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Would it be possible to make a cheap (as in disposable) mothership, to get one or two of those a bit closer?
Are they too heavy to fit under a cessna or similar? Trundle trundle trundle whoosh!
@RichRARobi @elasticsoul Well, why not, but the question is whether the benefit (if any) over traditional launching is worth the time and cost of development.
Wikipedia says that a TAURUS weighs ca. 1.4 tonnes, while the maximum total take-off weight of a typical Cessna 172 is <1.2 tonnes (including the aircraft itself which is 800 kg). Also, I'd assume that a cruise missile needs a certain minimum launch velocity that the aircraft must fly at.
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The US is threatening #Canada (again) if we don't buy their F-35s. Here's what Denmark said about the ones they bought, and regret buying:
"They're in for repairs about half the time or even more," he said, "so the Americans have all the power of actually destroying our air force just by shutting down [parts] supplies."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/norad-canada-us-f35-9.7059800
@elasticsoul after threatening to invade Canada surely they’re not surprised that they don’t want to buy their planes?
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@alessandro @elasticsoul Why buy any F-35s at all? They have a laundry list of issues, including problems in harsh environments, and apparently the US military has been hiding poor performance compared to older models, like the A-10 warthog. They were over hyped and are not at all worth their asking price.
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@DavidM_yeg @su_liam @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell Yes. Ukraine defence against what was the second strongest army in the world (and now the second strongest in Russia) has completely changed the technology of war.
@NovaNaturalist @troy_frizzell @su_liam @elasticsoul
I’m reminded of a novel I read back in the 80’s (David’s Sling… I think?) that included an interesting look forward at some of this cheap disposable warfare: amongst other things they posited satellites carrying a bunch of mostly inert but self-targeting metal missiles (basically crowbars with control fins and simple sensors) that could function as bunker and silo busters through simple inertia. I’m not sure how practical that specific idea is, but the general idea of being able to cheaply produce essentially disposable weaponry is likely to be revolutionary over the next decades.
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@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @troy_frizzell And after each dead F-35, most of those can be reused. How many Canada geese with a clear and focussed goal of going up a jet intake does it take to kill a fighter? I’d say one could do it if it’s full of metal shurikens.
@troy_frizzell @su_liam @elasticsoul
The math really starts to be against these impressive, expensive, high tech systems: US has fewer than 3,000 fighter jets of all sorts, and every one destroyed will take millions of dollars and years to replace, and Canada could produce 5 million drones (several thousand for each jet) at the same cost as our 16 new fighter jets.
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@RichRARobi @elasticsoul Well, why not, but the question is whether the benefit (if any) over traditional launching is worth the time and cost of development.
Wikipedia says that a TAURUS weighs ca. 1.4 tonnes, while the maximum total take-off weight of a typical Cessna 172 is <1.2 tonnes (including the aircraft itself which is 800 kg). Also, I'd assume that a cruise missile needs a certain minimum launch velocity that the aircraft must fly at.
Thinking about weight, etc then, what is needed is a simple straight (?) wing chassis and two electric powered props. Sling the taurus or similar under the wing. Nothing complex, simple controls to get it on its way. Quick would help, and make it as inconspicuous as possible, as stealthy as possible. No landing gear needed, but if possible the chassis should turn back home for re-use!
Take it as far as it can, then release to do the job.
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@troy_frizzell @su_liam @elasticsoul
The math really starts to be against these impressive, expensive, high tech systems: US has fewer than 3,000 fighter jets of all sorts, and every one destroyed will take millions of dollars and years to replace, and Canada could produce 5 million drones (several thousand for each jet) at the same cost as our 16 new fighter jets.
@DavidM_yeg @elasticsoul @su_liam @troy_frizzell one still needs jets to patrol large areas (like our Arctic or Atlantic coasts). Had USA not shied from helping Ukraine, jets would have bombed every border entry point on day 1 on the 2022 war making it much harder for Russia to invade. Could have been Vee different war. War turned to drones because the west refused to give Ukraine the conventional weapons it needed.
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@alessandro @elasticsoul Why buy any F-35s at all? They have a laundry list of issues, including problems in harsh environments, and apparently the US military has been hiding poor performance compared to older models, like the A-10 warthog. They were over hyped and are not at all worth their asking price.
Every platform has its issues, and I trust the judgment of the experts who were tasked with making the decision. The Warthog is a grossly overrated and completely different plane - it's like comparing a car to a lawnmower.
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Every platform has its issues, and I trust the judgment of the experts who were tasked with making the decision. The Warthog is a grossly overrated and completely different plane - it's like comparing a car to a lawnmower.
@alessandro @elasticsoul Yes, and then imagine the lawnmower outclassing the fucking car.
