Should citizens of your country that live elsewhere have the right to vote?

@renata @evan @mayintoronto @fabio I usually identify as Brazilian but last week I was imagining some kind of conversation and called myself "Canadian" in my head for the first time (I moved here in 2021).

I also often say I'm from <city where I moved for university and lived for 8 years> rather than <city I was born in and lived for 16 years>.

@MJmusicinears I didn’t think of armed forces, or diplomats for that matter.

It is a complex web.

@evan

@evan @mayintoronto @fabio

French perspective: "expat" is used for french people who live abroad, sometimes for years, but still feel more french than anything else. Foreign people who live in France might be called expat if they come from a rich country, but immigrant if coming from a poor country. So "expat" really is a marker of being part of the proper, rich, white countries, aka good old racism

@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio @evan to me, "expat" carries with it the expectation that you will eventually return to home country. Immigrant does not.

@dancer_storm I love this for you!!

My parents brought me here as a young kid and I was told we were probably never going back home. It was nice that all the kids around me looked different too, and they were all (probably) Canadians.

In my head, it wasn't long before I thought "I guess I'm a Canadian now?"

@renata @evan @fabio

@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio there are some other words for French citizens living abroad that are used here in Montreal.

@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio @evan
I thought of myself as "expat" (though I'm not sure I ever said that out loud), when I moved from Canada to Germany and realised two things:
I come from a significantly different culture, and
I like my culture, and don't want to "assimilate" (a word Germans like to use with newcomers).

I wanted to be a Canadian in Germany. Sometimes that was charming, sometimes it was very uncomfortable (for me, for them).

But I don't think I'd use the word "expat" now.

@fabio @renata @mayintoronto I grew up in the US, where the idea that you would retain any sense of belonging to your country of origin was considered at the very least backwards and ungrateful and sometimes borderline treasonous.

Thankfully, I think our world is developing a more complex idea of migrant identity that encompasses both country of origin and country of residence, and maybe others.

@deborahh @mayintoronto @fabio @evan yeah, the danger comes from the illusion that not everyone feels like this when going abroad. Everyone wants to remember where they come from, but not everyone can afford to.

@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio @evan good point! Thanks, that helps me think about this.

@evan I'm an American-Swiss, and hopefully will soon be just Swiss.

I strongly believe that emmigrants like you @evan and me should be able to vote in elections back "home", however let's face the facts. My current USA voting rights are based in my college town, a leftist bastion in a Democratic State in a Republican district.

In the time that I've been voting from abroad my vote has had no impact whatever on the outcome.

Just let me out of this madness, OK?

@evan I am a citizen of my country living elsewhere (for nearly 17 years) and I said "no". Ireland has a huge diaspora, many of whom have never been there and don't understand the country or its culture. It broke my heart to miss out on the historic referendums legalising gay marriage (the first country in the world to do so by popular vote) and abortion, but it's the price I pay for leaving.

@evan we should vote only where we live

@evan my “Yes But” response is based on two things which essentially amount to: do they have skin in the game?

1. For nations that impose tax on citizens living avoid abroad I firmly believe in the concept of “no taxation without representation”
2. For nations that do not impose tax on citizens living abroad, I believe there is value in implementing a test based on propinquity, i.e. has the citizen lived in the home nation for a certain number of years cumulative; does the citizen have close ties such as property ownership, close family, employment, etc.

My thinking is that I don’t appreciate citizens who have no practical ties to this nation influencing decisions that impact me but not them.

@evan Whelp, guess my answer doesn't match what I mean now... should be "Yes, but..."

> in the US, where the idea that you would retain any sense of belonging to your country of origin was considered at the very least backwards and ungrateful

@evan Interesting. It has been my impression my whole life that the US is the foremost place in the world where people maintain their heritage for generations, cluster in subcultures and call themselves e.g. Irish-American.

In Sweden in the 80s, children of immigrants were expected to assimilate, call themselves Swedish and drop all other ethnic identity.

These days, it's more common to embrace multiculturality, a concept that to me comes from the US, and call yourself e.g. "100% Kurdish, 100% Swedish".

@mayintoronto @fabio @renata

@the_moep why?

@wjmaggos @evan People living abroad are still hugely affected by the decisions made by their government back home. My entire rights & basis for living in my home are governed by foreign policy & by bilateral agreements between governments. Things like pension policy are also hugely relevant given I don't have permanent rights in my residence country. Should I not get any say in how my passport-country approaches those issues?

@wjmaggos @evan (Whereas conversely my country of residence is where I live and pay the large majority of my taxes to and use more public services & transport).

@mpjgregoire @evan @stinerman I was having a discussion about this recently: I agree it's a better model. Though if the UK implemented the French style system there's a downside for my stress insofar as there'd genuinely be a solid chance I'd end up running for whichever seat contained Austria...