Age Verification isn't a technical problem to solve.

@0x4d6165 It means people can check the code and see what it really does. It's supposed to simply give a yes or no, nothing else. Or do you think this is still corruptable?

@0x4d6165 Very insightful...

@0x4d6165 There already are digital ID systems like EU's proposal that are implemented by governments around the world. For instance, Sweden has it ( y'know, one of the most progressive countries in the world ), so does Denmark, Canada, etc. I don't see how they affected negatively anyone in particular.

I don't see "basics of authoritarianism" anywhere in here like USA is doing, where they censor queerness and spread disinformation to control people.

@Azarilh Showing ID in person to another human is very different. It doesn't require to collect and keep a copy of it digitally, and therefore is an entirely different situation that isn't even comparable. It also doesn't gatekeep portals of information in the same way that digital age verification on the internet does.

@Em0nM4stodon What about an open source solution that doesn't collect anything, and it simply tells the website "yes" or "no"?

@0x4d6165 Just look up "sweden digital id".

We have eID here in Italy too, but it's not used for much.

@Azarilh is right that there are age verification mechanisms that fully protect privacy and prevent sites requiring age verification from knowing the real-world identity of the user.
They can even be designed to prevent the authority providing the age verification from knowing what sites it's requested for.
More about this here: https://www.newamerica.org/oti/briefs/exploring-privacy-preserving-age-verification/
I'm not a fan of online age verification, but if governments are going to require it, we should be demanding that it be done this way.
@0x4d6165@transfem.social

@serfdeweb People need to contact their representatives and complain loudly about it.

These legislations need to be repealed and prevented.

The political class needs to hear that citizens reject surveillance firmly, and the focus should be instead on creating platforms that are less addictive, more privacy-respectful, and safer for everyone, including adults.

The time to fight is now.

@0x4d6165 OK then. *plonk*

@Em0nM4stodon

It is all about surveillance. Protecting children from serious harm on the Internet involves stopped malicious adults accessing child services, not stopping children accessing adult services.

@Azarilh There would still be a need for this open-source app to collect "something" in order to answer this question. When I say it's not possible, I do not say this lightly. I have been researching this issue for a very long time.

@monkeyben

@0x4d6165 @jik

I'd rather trust a senior IT engineer than someone that just shouts "authoritarianism".

I understand your distrust, but you are blowing it out of proportion. It is possible to design an infrastructure that is safe. The only concern now is how will they use it, what will they block behind ID checks, and that is more concerning and rightfully so.

But we can't outright ban ID checks either. I'd rather not have children get addicted to smoking at 10.

@0x4d6165 @jik

And BTW, we already had ID checks for a very long time. The only difference with such infrastructure would be "safer".

Countries blocking social media to children is a different problem altogether, and i disagree with it for the most part.

Online shops can require your ID, so can video platforms like YouTube or CornHub. For official EU petitions, you need your eID to verify you are actually a EU citizen.

RE: https://federate.social/@jik/116115336623105287

@Em0nM4stodon

What about this person's response?

https://mastodon.social/@jik@federate.social/116115336650467751

@Em0nM4stodon I appreciate the genuine conversation, by the way. I understand it can be a touchy topic for some.

@divVerent @dalias why isn't it going to happen?

We are in a bad spot now, but... the bubble is popping. A bubble that pretty much all of survailence capitalism is involved in.

Politically things are heating up.

The USA's control is also breaking across the world.

Pretty much all the major companies are involved with a single scandal that is shaking up leadership in several places.

People are actively pushing back against Ring and tearing down Flock cameras in a push agaiinst survailence capitalism.

With such a turbulant time, why couldn't we successfullly land in a space where abusive platforms are banned and a minimum standard of behavior is established?

@Azarilh I do not have the time to review and speak about this specific product sadly. But in general, even if the token handed to the application requesting it is fully anonymized, the application collecting the initial data is still a potential attack vector and point of failure.

If it's proprietary, then it entirely relies on blind trust. If it's open source, then it must be fully audited regularly and built and reviewed with independent experts. But even if it was perfectly secure and private, the piece of ID showing the age must be uploaded somehow. Is the whole system secure? Where is this data stored? Does it get fully purged after or is the "deleted" information only flagged as deleted but kept in a database somewhere?

If all identifiable information is fully deleted, then what shows this token is reliably only used by an adult and not shared with a child? Where is this token stored? Can it be sold to others online? People have already done that with the supposedly secure and supposedly private World App. If identifiable information is kept to prevent this, then all the other problems mentioned above remain.

And regardless of all of this, having to upload an official ID, even in the imaginary scenario where we would magically have a perfectly privacy-preserving technology, gatekeeps the use of devices and access to information and communication from many people who, for various reasons, cannot have this official ID. It closes down the internet. We should never agree to that, let alone contribute to facilitating it. More information here: https://www.eff.org/issues/age-verification

@Em0nM4stodon What i hate about age checks in social media is that they say it's to protect children from the toxicity of social media.

How about governments try to actually regulate social media instead of outright banning children? Social media can be a good source of social integration and information ( being a queer child that lives with queerphobe parents, for instance, may only get queer support from people on the internet ). 1/2