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  3. It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

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  • Signor Q. 🦩E Signor Q. 🦩

    @neil Then the actual face to face world

    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
    Neil Brown
    wrote last edited by
    #32

    @electricfusionQ

    Sorry, I think that I am misunderstanding.

    Yes, women (and others) get harassed face to face too, and yes, absolutely, men should stop doing that. In the absence of that, we should put safety measures in place.

    We have the ability to do different things in different contexts.

    If that is what you are saying, then I agree completely.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

      It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

      Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

      u_urbanU This user is from outside of this forum
      u_urbanU This user is from outside of this forum
      u_urban
      wrote last edited by
      #33

      @neil

      Wo ist das Problem, dann muss man halt seinen Beitrag mit der Einstellung "Only Follower" veröffentlichen!
      Ist halt schade um die Möglichkeit seine Gedanken in größerer Runde auszutauschen und auf neue interessante Menschen zu treffen!
      Vielleicht hilft dann auch der Umzug auf eine andere, kleinere (?) Instanz.
      Oft lohnt sich auch die Kommunikation auf die Metaebene zu heben, konnte so schon manches Missverständnis klären!

      Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

        ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
        ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
        Valentino
        wrote last edited by
        #34

        @neil new here, what’s a “fedi”? I keep seeing this word but I can’t understand what it is

        Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

          It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

          Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

          @PrivacyMattersP This user is from outside of this forum
          @PrivacyMattersP This user is from outside of this forum
          @PrivacyMatters
          wrote last edited by
          #35

          @neil 💯

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

            It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

            Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

            Tim ChambersT This user is from outside of this forum
            Tim ChambersT This user is from outside of this forum
            Tim Chambers
            wrote last edited by
            #36

            @neil @steter Agree that reply controls and “hide reply” in particular where it make reply invisible but commenter never knows - is crucial to build.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • ValentinoV Valentino

              @neil new here, what’s a “fedi”? I keep seeing this word but I can’t understand what it is

              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil Brown
              wrote last edited by
              #37

              @VSRT

              Welcome!

              The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

              A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

              ValentinoV 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • u_urbanU u_urban

                @neil

                Wo ist das Problem, dann muss man halt seinen Beitrag mit der Einstellung "Only Follower" veröffentlichen!
                Ist halt schade um die Möglichkeit seine Gedanken in größerer Runde auszutauschen und auf neue interessante Menschen zu treffen!
                Vielleicht hilft dann auch der Umzug auf eine andere, kleinere (?) Instanz.
                Oft lohnt sich auch die Kommunikation auf die Metaebene zu heben, konnte so schon manches Missverständnis klären!

                Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                Neil Brown
                wrote last edited by
                #38

                @u_urban

                I suspect that the online translation I used is poor, as it makes it sound like you are trivialising the impact of these replies on women, and suggesting that the onus is on them (moving instance, or engaging differently) to solve the problem.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                  @tknarr It's all good 🙂

                  Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                  Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                  Todd Knarr
                  wrote last edited by
                  #39

                  @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                  Ben S.H flere-imsaho 🇺🇦M 2 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                    @VSRT

                    Welcome!

                    The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

                    A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

                    ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
                    ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
                    Valentino
                    wrote last edited by
                    #40

                    @neil oh I understand now, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :))

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Alex HyettA Alex Hyett

                      @neil that would be perfect. An “only allow replies from people you follow” option would help so much.

                      Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                      Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                      Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️
                      wrote last edited by
                      #41

                      @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

                      So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                      I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

                      Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                        MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
                        MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
                        Melissa
                        wrote last edited by
                        #42

                        @neil
                        I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

                        Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️

                          @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

                          So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                          I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

                          Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                          Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                          Neil Brown
                          wrote last edited by
                          #43

                          @mlanger @alex

                          > YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

                          Indeed, I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that it should be mandatory!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • MelissaS Melissa

                            @neil
                            I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

                            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                            Neil Brown
                            wrote last edited by
                            #44

                            @Shewolfnm I'm so sorry - that is just awful 😞

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                              @evdelen As you say, that is post visibility, not reply control.

                              Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                              Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M This user is from outside of this forum
                              Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️
                              wrote last edited by
                              #45

                              @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                              Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                                Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                Ben S.
                                wrote last edited by
                                #46

                                @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                                The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                                Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️M Maria Langer | 📝💎🌵🛥️

                                  @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                                  Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Neil Brown
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #47

                                  @mlanger @evdelen

                                  Great!

                                  It is certainly *a* control here.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Ben S.H Ben S.

                                    @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                                    The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                                    Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Todd Knarr
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #48

                                    @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                    Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                    Todd KnarrT Ben S.H 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                      @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                      Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Todd Knarr
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #49

                                      @HunterZ @neil Email RBLs and browser ad blockers are vulnerable to the same abuses. If we adopted your policy, both would be abandoned. Nobody's stupid enough to propose that, though.

                                      ... OK, Google is stupid enough to propose doing away with ad blockers, but look how well that idea was received.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                        @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                                        Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                                        Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ben S.
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #50

                                        @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                                        Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Ben S.H Ben S.

                                          @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                                          Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Todd Knarr
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #51

                                          @HunterZ @neil Did I say anything about it being at the instance level? No, I did not.

                                          The use cases all involve decisions by individual users about which blocklists to subscribe to. It certainly _could_ be used by an instance admin, but we already give them that power by allowing instance-level blocking in the first place. The social issue there isn't subscribeable blocklilsts, it's having an instance admin you can't trust not to block people inappropriately by whatever mechanism.

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