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  3. It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

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  • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

    @tknarr It's all good πŸ™‚

    Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
    Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
    Todd Knarr
    wrote last edited by
    #39

    @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

    Ben S.H flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

      @VSRT

      Welcome!

      The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

      A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

      ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
      ValentinoV This user is from outside of this forum
      Valentino
      wrote last edited by
      #40

      @neil oh I understand now, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :))

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • Alex HyettA Alex Hyett

        @neil that would be perfect. An β€œonly allow replies from people you follow” option would help so much.

        Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
        Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
        Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️
        wrote last edited by
        #41

        @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

        So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

        I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™€οΈ

        Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

          It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

          Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

          MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
          MelissaS This user is from outside of this forum
          Melissa
          wrote last edited by
          #42

          @neil
          I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. πŸ˜•

          Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️

            @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

            So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

            I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.πŸ€·πŸΌβ€β™€οΈ

            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
            Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
            Neil Brown
            wrote last edited by
            #43

            @mlanger @alex

            > YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

            Indeed, I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that it should be mandatory!

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • MelissaS Melissa

              @neil
              I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. πŸ˜•

              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
              Neil Brown
              wrote last edited by
              #44

              @Shewolfnm I'm so sorry - that is just awful 😞

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                @evdelen As you say, that is post visibility, not reply control.

                Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M This user is from outside of this forum
                Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️
                wrote last edited by
                #45

                @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                Neil BrownN 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                  @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                  Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ben S.
                  wrote last edited by
                  #46

                  @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                  The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                  Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️M Maria Langer | πŸ“πŸ’ŽπŸŒ΅πŸ›₯️

                    @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                    Neil BrownN This user is from outside of this forum
                    Neil Brown
                    wrote last edited by
                    #47

                    @mlanger @evdelen

                    Great!

                    It is certainly *a* control here.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Ben S.H Ben S.

                      @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                      The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                      Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                      Todd Knarr
                      wrote last edited by
                      #48

                      @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                      Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                      Todd KnarrT Ben S.H 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                        @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                        Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                        Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                        Todd Knarr
                        wrote last edited by
                        #49

                        @HunterZ @neil Email RBLs and browser ad blockers are vulnerable to the same abuses. If we adopted your policy, both would be abandoned. Nobody's stupid enough to propose that, though.

                        ... OK, Google is stupid enough to propose doing away with ad blockers, but look how well that idea was received.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                          @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                          Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                          Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                          Ben S.H This user is from outside of this forum
                          Ben S.
                          wrote last edited by
                          #50

                          @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                          Todd KnarrT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Ben S.H Ben S.

                            @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                            Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Todd KnarrT This user is from outside of this forum
                            Todd Knarr
                            wrote last edited by
                            #51

                            @HunterZ @neil Did I say anything about it being at the instance level? No, I did not.

                            The use cases all involve decisions by individual users about which blocklists to subscribe to. It certainly _could_ be used by an instance admin, but we already give them that power by allowing instance-level blocking in the first place. The social issue there isn't subscribeable blocklilsts, it's having an instance admin you can't trust not to block people inappropriately by whatever mechanism.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                              It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                              Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                              Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈY This user is from outside of this forum
                              Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈY This user is from outside of this forum
                              Talya (she/her) πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈβœ‘οΈ
                              wrote last edited by
                              #52

                              @neil remember when Mastodon asked for changes to be made to the interaction policies FEP specifically so they can opt out of implementing reply and boost control?
                              i remember.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Todd KnarrT Todd Knarr

                                @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                                flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦
                                wrote last edited by
                                #53

                                @tknarr @neil btw. that visibility setting is doing something very non-obvious, namely it's always interpreted per-message, which makes the actual thread audience completely unpredictable.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Signor Q. 🦩E Signor Q. 🦩

                                  @neil Can you in RL control who`s replying to words you said?

                                  flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦M This user is from outside of this forum
                                  flere-imsaho πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #54

                                  @electricfusionQ @neil this is real life too, mon.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                    It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                    Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                    KrazovK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    KrazovK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Krazov
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #55

                                    @neil @mawhrin I saw it on Bluesky, and it seems to do the job.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                      It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                      Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                      Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)Y This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Rachel (Toxic Femininity Arc)
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #56

                                      @neil ultimately, fedi's culture of men constantly centering themselves, reply-guying, being weird and condescending and creepy to women and fems, and so forth, is a social-cultural problem. and while better tools can help to shield us from the worst of it, you can't solve a social problem with technical solutions. in other words, it's the culture of misogyny that needs to change, or nothing will fundamentally change.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Neil BrownN Neil Brown

                                        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                        always tiredP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        always tiredP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        always tired
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #57

                                        @neil Women. Black people. Jews...

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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